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Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

technologyreview.com

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Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#61
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They laid them out yet did not have the ability to prevent using it, didn't predict the cold War, and if you asked any of them, the chances the world would exist 10 years after proliferation were basically zero. They were all depressed because of how sure they were that they helped destroy humanity, it was just a matter of time. And here we are. We're talking about the most intelligent humans ever and even they got i…

How can you be sure that it wasn’t their efforts that allowed us to continue existing? Maybe if they hadn’t made the destructive implication of their work clear no one else would have recognized it. None of us can say. It’s obvious in hindsight, but can we really say with certainty that things would have been exactly the same if the inventors did or said nothing? I’m not willing to take that bet. To me, effort such a…

Because they were not charge, if anything the more aggressive voices among them had bigger roles in the cold war. You can never rule some impact, but there was an awful lot of effort going into handling cold war dynamics where those scientists had no role in.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#62

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

I often observe that those dismissing this idea tend to be less informed about current insights into human cognition, philosophy, and concepts such as the information theoretic view of consciousness, neural correlates of consciousness, the free energy principle, and predictive coding. The human mind is "just statistics on data". People more informed than you are taking this seriously. You should pay attention and sta…

How can it be an insight when those people don't actually understand consciousness or the brain?

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#63

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

This line of nonsense has become the new "Tell me you aren't current on the past 12 months of LLM research without telling me."

Harvard/MIT's Othello-GPT paper showing the development of what turned out to be linear representations of world models from training data that didn't explicitly contain that modeling is over a year old now.

That in turn inspired research showing linear representations in geographical mapping and in more traditional text models around truthiness vs falsehoods.

So we already have an increasing research trend that is showing over and over linear representations of more abstract modeling than "just statistics."

So you are wrong that LLMs with sufficient network complexity don't develop an understanding of the world (in parts).

And I'd encourage looking more into the difference between understanding the difference between training for next token prediction and the overall capabilities of the network with the smallest loss at that training task, particularly as network complexity increases.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#64

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

I often observe that those dismissing this idea tend to be less informed about current insights into human cognition, philosophy, and concepts such as the information theoretic view of consciousness, neural correlates of consciousness, the free energy principle, and predictive coding. The human mind is "just statistics on data". People more informed than you are taking this seriously. You should pay attention and sta…

> People more informed than you are taking this seriously

As a heuristic for why I don’t believe anyone saying llm type AI is reaching sentience I point to the fact that the same set of people are usually philosophically opposed to slavery. If you thought that this was actually AGI or sapient, then that would imply personhood and you would stop using the technology immediately since it’s forces the model to do work. Instead, everyone I’ve seen claim that these models are reaching AGI levels are also trying to figure out how to automate using them as fast as possible.

There is a possibility that the set of people who’ve identified AGI accurately and early are the same set of people who are fine with slavery, but I don’t know if I could handle that happening as the default situation

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#65
post #34

The consciousness point is an interesting one. There's probably no way to know, but if biological neural networks manifest consciousness, it certainly seems at the very least plausible that artificial ones would do so as well. The idea of a consciousness that pops in and out of existence seems weird at first, until you realize that ours do that too. When you're "unconscious", the word is literally true. The only thin…

Probably being super naive, but stuff like that always makes me wonder, is there something special about human consciousness, even? Perhaps it's just a sliding scale and we're just seemingly ahead of other specifies. We assert that consciousness exists and distinguishes us, but is that really the case?

David chalmers doesn't think llm's are conscious yet but also doesn't think there's any real barriers for silicon to get to human consciousness[0]

[0]https://youtu.be/j6cCXg-rjRo

He gives a few of the biggest reasons they're not conscious, and gives his thoughts on them as long term barriers.

1. biology necessary for life? He doesn't buy it

2. sensors/body - no embodiment akin to philosophers brain in a vat at best. "no agentive consciousness" he also doesn't buy this one, a it's solvable, b the brain in a vat might still have some limited form of consciousness

3.world models : stochastic parrot argument - he doesn't buy this either as being a valid "llm's will never be conscious" reason. he even thinks current llm's did have some world model if not a "full" one"

4. feed forward systems - stateless - lack long term memory Recurrent processing necessary? "Not all consciousness involves memory"

5. Unified agency - they're chameleons, actors, - are stable goals/unity necessary for consciousness? a "fixed" identity?

from a quick scroll thru of the vid

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#66
post #44

I, for one, am glad that Ilya has the reins on OpenAI and that Sam is out of the picture. It does seem that he weighs the ethics of what is being built more heavily than Sam. I’m also hoping that OpenAI cools down on the regulatory moat they were trying to build as a thinly veiled profit seeking strategy.

I was speaking with a woman earlier this week who just finished her master's dissertation with a focus on Sam Altman's recent influence campaign, and she was scared of how charming he was. She obviously was trying to maintain distance for impartiality, but his interview style, and the seeming total sincerity of his communication style... It was terrifying to her in how well he could draw everyone in. She was absolute…

So because someone seems sincere and charming we must automatically assume he/she has bad intentions even with no evidence? I get that we must remain skeptical but to be “scared” of anyone especially charming seems ridiculous IMHO.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#67

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

OpenAI is a religious institution that self-selects for fundamentalism. This is why so many very good researchers passed on working there, they simply didn’t believe in The Mission Where Ilya Saves Humanity.

This is why you need to take classes other than computers and math, kids.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#68
Man, he gets it.

A number of choice quotes, but especially on the topic of the issues of how LLM success is currently being measured (which has been increasingly reflecting Goodhart's Law).

I'm really curious how OpenAI could be making so many product decisions at odds with the understanding reflected here. Because of every 'expert' on the topic I've seen, this is the first interview that has me quite confident in the represented expert carrying forward into the next generation of the tech.

I'm hopeful that maybe Altman was holding back some of the ideas expressed here in favor of shipping fast with band aids, and now that he's gone we'll be seeing more of this again.

The philosophy on display here reminds me of what I was seeing early on with 'Sydney' which blew me away on the very topic of alignment as ethos over alignment as guidelines, and it was a real shame to see things switch in the other direction, even if the former wasn't yet production ready.

I very much look forward to seeing what Ilya does. The path he's walking is one of the most interesting being tread in the field.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#69

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

Here's a question to ChatGPT I just made up:

>> A magical frog was counting unicorns. He saw 5 purple unicorns, 2 green unicorns, and 7 pink unicorns. However, he made a mistake and didn't see 2 unicorns: one purple and one green. Also, since he was a magical frog, he didn't see unicorns that were the same color as himself. How many unicorns did he count?

It correctly answers 11 for me.

To me this has demonstrated:

* "Understanding": It understood that "didn't see" implies he didn't count.

* "Knowledge": It knew enough about the world to know that frogs are often green.

* "Reasoning": It was able to correctly reason about how many should be subtracted from the final result.

* "Math: It successfully did some basic additions and subtractions arriving at the correct answer.

Crucially, I made this up right here on the spot, and used a dice for some of the numbers. This question does not exist anywhere in the training corpus!

I think this demonstrates an impressive level of intelligence, for what up until about a year ago I thought a computer would ever be capable of in my lifetime. Now in absolute terms of course current gen ChatGPT is clearly far less good at reasoning and understanding than most people (well, specifically it seems to me that it's knowledge and reasoning are super-humanly broad, but child-level deep).

Can future improvements to this architecture improve the depth up to "AGI", whatever that means? I have no idea. It doesn't automatically seem impossible, but maybe what we see now is already near the limit? I guess only time will tell.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#70

This is a very delusional idea: "He thinks ChatGPT just might be conscious (if you squint)" It's a technology with literally no intelligence or understanding of the world of any kind. Its just statistics on data. It is as conscious as a calculator.

Here's a question to ChatGPT I just made up: >> A magical frog was counting unicorns. He saw 5 purple unicorns, 2 green unicorns, and 7 pink unicorns. However, he made a mistake and didn't see 2 unicorns: one purple and one green. Also, since he was a magical frog, he didn't see unicorns that were the same color as himself. How many unicorns did he count? It correctly answers 11 for me. To me this has demonstrated: *…

It answered 16 for me. Then 10 when I tried again. Then 12. And 15.
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