Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation

#61

Post by thfuran » Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

hurryer wrote: post #43

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if non-working teenagers don't also ride bikes on roads Sure they do, but we all know that you drive differently and in different places when you aren't doing it for payment and dealing with those sorts of constraints (if I'm not fast enough, I'll get bad ratings/tips, for example). It also used to be normal to not finish high school, not allow women to get a bank account without a man's signature, and to beat you…

> I'm not sure why teenagers need to do anything other than learning about the world and going to school Some teenagers don't have what to eat.

And many teenagers have hobbies or interests that aren't free.

Re: Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation

#62

Post by Broken_Hippo » Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

hurryer wrote: post #43

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if non-working teenagers don't also ride bikes on roads Sure they do, but we all know that you drive differently and in different places when you aren't doing it for payment and dealing with those sorts of constraints (if I'm not fast enough, I'll get bad ratings/tips, for example). It also used to be normal to not finish high school, not allow women to get a bank account without a man's signature, and to beat you…

> I'm not sure why teenagers need to do anything other than learning about the world and going to school Some teenagers don't have what to eat.

And they shouldn't need to worry about that. Neither should others, honestly.

I mean, realistically I know that some folks don't have real choices, and that includes whether or not they get to concentrate on school or whether they need to work - but it doesn't have to be that way so often.

Re: Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation

#63

Post by threeseed » Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #55

threeseed wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but calling them "children" is disgraceful We define a child as anyone who has not yet reached their 18th birthday. This is in line with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and civil legislation in England and Wales. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/case-management-guidance/definit...

Ok, thanks for the link (and the text of your post is in fact a quote for that page); but the page in question is from the UK department of justice. In the judicial system it makes sense to call all minors "children". In an article for the general public, the use of the term is disingenuous IMHO, because people usually don't think of 17-year-old persons as "children".

The law isn't just for the judicial system. It's what governs the general public.

17 year old persons are children.

Re: Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation

#64

Post by rich_sasha » Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 8:54 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #23

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #14

Ridiculous editorializing with the "This teenager was allowed to work and now he's dead" part. As if non-working teenagers don't also ride bikes on roads. Should just be made legal, at least they're trying to do something legal when drug dealing is always an option. Used to be completely normal for teenagers to work these sort of jobs.

Agreed. > Children working as riders for food delivery apps > The family of a 17-year-old who died while working as a Deliveroo rider... A 17-year-old is not a child. He's a minor, yes, and it's possibly illegal to have him work some jobs (although not all jobs, not everywhere), but calling them "children" is disgraceful.

Where I live, Deliveroo riders ride like they are immortal. I'm amazed I don't see a few dead per day. Run through red lights, zigzag through traffic, ride on the wrong side of the road.

And I'd imagine it's driven by the incentives/constraints of the job. I never see anyone ride that crazy.

I'd say a 17-yo doesn't have the maturity to understand that this is not worth a daily dose of a milimort.

Further complicating things, Deliveroo riders aren't even employees (maybe that's changed recently). They are contractors and so the risks of doing a dangerous job are offloaded onto them by the company. An employer would be liable for eg setting delivery times that necessitate reckless riding, a B2B contractor is expected to do their own risk assessment.

So I think it's fair to treat these 17-yo as children in this context, and certainly as exploited.

Re: Children working as riders for food delivery apps – BBC investigation

#65

Post by thfuran » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:22 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #39

lhnz wrote: post #19

Why don't they just allow children to work legitimately through the application, but add some safe-guarding controls and potentially notification to or authorisation by parents? This seems like a much better idea than to have a level of uncontrollable fraud that allows it through the backdoor and enriches rent-seekers.

Children are more immature and prone to taking unnecessary risks. I understand the theory but the reality would just be more children dying on the road.

Yes, that's why I believe all children should be banned from anywhere within 50 feet of roadways or swimming pools. It's simply too dangerous. Won't someone please think of the children!?