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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

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Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#61

Post by xyzelement »

browningstreet wrote: post #54
mathieuh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

I live in northern Nevada in an exurb. I go for a walk everyday that requires me to go on a road for half a mile before I get to the dirt path. On that half mile road the traffic is so constant and so loud (from my small gated community) I can’t hear whatever I’m listening to on my headphones. The clamor is so aggravating I’m usually a bit angry by the time I hit the dirt path. My exurb neighbors (multiple) have loud…

I am just curious- why did you opt for a place that is so out of sync w what matters to you ?

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#62

Post by torton »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

Construction methods and quality vary a lot. Older concrete and brick multistory apartment buildings generally have excellent soundproofing. Wooden apartment buildings, like five-over-one or 3-4 story all wood apartment buildings, not so much. Low rise wooden hotels, built as cheaply as possible, are at the lower limit of “I can know exactly what my neighbours are doing if I pay attention”.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#63

Post by alphanullmeric »

bitwize wrote: post #13
whalesalad wrote: post #3

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

The Anglosphere is more car dependent and more prone to NIMBY policies and housing shortages than continental Europe, because continental Europeans are more comfortable with density. Density is the solution to many land management problems.

Nice way of saying your proposed transportation system doesn’t work without forcing people to live in cities.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#64

Post by bertil »

anthk wrote: post #46
bertil wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Powers are comparable, but people’s expectations are dramatically different for many reasons: * Climate: a shaded courtyard is pretty much necessary given the weather, for instance; * History: not only most city centers in Spain were built in the Middle Ages, but they were also built in the Arabic tradition of having fountains, slated blinds; * Economic: Spain grew economically a bit later than the US and the rest of…

Not all Spain has a Mediterranean climate.

No, of course – Galicia famously doesn’t, but they still have tall buildings and courtyards to shelter from the unspeakable wind.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#65

Post by jorvi »

dotcoma wrote: post #18
bitwize wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Anglosphere is more car dependent and more prone to NIMBY policies and housing shortages than continental Europe, because continental Europeans are more comfortable with density. Density is the solution to many land management problems.

Yes, but they got many things right in the Netherlands even with an incredibly low percentage of people living in flats. Bikes, not cars, please.

Except our distaste for flats has plummeted us into one of the worst housing crises of the entire world. Literally grinding our entire society to a halt, from students to young couples to prisoners to elders to cured long-term patients, everyone is trapped.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#66

Post by sampo »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

I live in Finland in a modern apartment building. Walls have good sound insulation, and triple pane windows insulate for both heat and sound. I am next to a busy road, but can not hear it inside, unless I open some windows.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#67

Post by stetrain »

Axsuul wrote: post #56
stetrain wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More dense construction in urban areas will probably help make single family homes affordable for those who want them. I imagine people who own single family homes in nice suburbs are pretty happy about it, especially if they bought it when prices were half of what they are currently and are paying <3% interest.

> More dense construction in urban areas will probably help make single family homes affordable for those who want them. Probably the opposite effect for SFHs in the urban areas. People usually prefer living in a detached house, especially when raising a family, and those are gradually being replaced by these multi-family dwellings, so the supply of them is actually going down.

Well yes. There is more demand for housing in urban areas than there is room for detached single family homes. Either prices will continue to increase beyond the affordability of those raising families, or density can increase.

That's why they are urban areas, not suburban or rural.

> People usually prefer living in a detached house, especially when raising a family

I also think this is kind of a US-centric experience, or at least doesn't take pricing and location into account. I suppose most people would prefer a single family home in central Manhattan but that doesn't exist, and if it did it would be unaffordable.

Now a single family detached home with a convenient transit commute into the city would be great. The US isn't great at building those either.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#68

Post by mocha_nate »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

> I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup.

What an expression. I love that

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#69

Post by NikolaNovak »

flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

That's fascinating! I've lived in apartments or condos most of my life and it just wasn't an issue. Possibly structural, possibly cultural - people tended to live a quiet life, unless you were unfortunate and got a real party neighbour. I live in a house right now and in some ways my life is louder (closer to the loud streets, neighbour's barking dogs and lawnmower and snowblower machines and constant little constructions etc).

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#70

Post by Maken »

anthk wrote: post #46
bertil wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Powers are comparable, but people’s expectations are dramatically different for many reasons: * Climate: a shaded courtyard is pretty much necessary given the weather, for instance; * History: not only most city centers in Spain were built in the Middle Ages, but they were also built in the Arabic tradition of having fountains, slated blinds; * Economic: Spain grew economically a bit later than the US and the rest of…

Not all Spain has a Mediterranean climate.

Outside of the areas in the Cantabrian Coast and the Pyrenees, Spain is basically a dessert.
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