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Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

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Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#61

Post by johannes1234321 »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #43
johannes1234321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True the average person can't do that. However there are many organisations who can analyze different aspects from different perspectives and pull out consumable information from it. By having the raw material available this then can be cross-ckecked. If it's kept secret you need complete trust.

Unfortunately there are several times as many organizations who will take an undecipherable wall of text as an excuse to push their pre-existing beliefs and agendas with cherry-picked out of context quotes, intentionally misleading interpretations, and bad faith arguments. Bad faith actors would use it and a pile of techniques used mainly by religions and cults in order to try to seize power.

You don't need documents to tell lies. You can invent arbitrary secret sources. However you need documents to disprove lies.

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#62

Post by riversflow »

schoen wrote: post #37
photochemsyn wrote: post #17

Snowden made a mistake in not dumping the whole archive to Wikileaks as was done with the US State Department cables and the CIA's Vault 7 files. I think there's probably a lot more in those files that's of great embarrassment not just to the NSA and the US government in general (such as proof that it was conducting an illegal warrantless mass surveillance program in violation of US law) - but also to their collabora…

> which is very hard to justify on national security grounds I think the people doing this have a completely different notion of national security than the general public, one that includes a supposed right to know about surprises in general and big events in general , not just about bad guys plotting to attack you. For example, they might believe that details of economic activity, prices, religious movements, relati…

Huh. I completely agree with this justification for spying, to the point I would be upset if they weren’t spying in this way. To me spy craft is where personal ethics become less important than realpolitik. The most powerful country in the world should have an inside track on whats going on in important markets, by hook or by crook. That’s the governments job.

On what grounds does Petrobras have any right to privacy from the USG?

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#63

Post by cheschire »

garciasn wrote: post #6

> Why was only 1% of the documents published, in the end? “The documents are not like the WikiLeaks ones from the US state department, which were written by diplomats and, for the most part, easily understandable,” said Ewen MacAskill. “The Snowden files are largely technical, with lots of codewords and jargon that is hard to decipher. There are pages and pages of that which the public would not be interested in. The…

I agree this comes off as patronizing and profit driven. Only 1% of the documents are relevant today. They're holding the 99% until they feel they're relevant to current events so they can break the story.

I wonder what motivated this story to be published.

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#64

Post by OfSanguineFire »

photochemsyn wrote: post #17

Snowden made a mistake in not dumping the whole archive to Wikileaks as was done with the US State Department cables and the CIA's Vault 7 files. I think there's probably a lot more in those files that's of great embarrassment not just to the NSA and the US government in general (such as proof that it was conducting an illegal warrantless mass surveillance program in violation of US law) - but also to their collabora…

That the NSA engages in industrial espionage on behalf of US industry has been known since the European Parliament’s ECHELON report in 2000. There it was a matter of spying on Airbus, the major competitor of Boeing. But considering that that report made few waves outside of the nerd community (cypherpunks, readers of John Young’s Cryptome site and Slashdot, etc.), and was soon forgotten, I don’t think dumping the whole Snowden archive would trigger the large-scale controversy that you might hope for.

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#65

Post by Zigurd »

believecty wrote: post #25
saulpw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a capable public can make this determination The public is not capable, either technically nor emotionally nor politically.

[flagged]

In a total of three comments, this guy (and it IS a guy, for sure) accumulated -9 karma and provided another data point that crackpottery is always interdisciplinary: 2 on vaccines, and one on FEMA conspiracy theories. Bravo. Take a bow.

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#66

Post by Eisenstein »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #32
jasmes wrote: post #8

Journalistic integrity balancing with the national security interests of the most powerful nation on the planet is complicated. I am comfortable trusting the NYT to do their job. I hope that eventually all the technical papers eventually are available out of nerdy curiosity, but I’d prefer that be through declassification and not espionage.

The Atlantic and Pacific oceans and the US nuclear triad mean that there is nothing in those documents that could pose any significant threat to US national security. The NSA might in fact be occasionally helping to stop relatively small-scale attacks. However, as Prigozhin's march on Moscow in Russia and the 10/7 attacks in Israel show, even running an authoritarian surveillance state or a heavily militarized state…

> there is nothing in those documents that could pose any significant threat to US national security.

You are saying that because if anyone attacks us with conventional forces we will nuke them/invade them then we have no nation security interest concerning anything in classified documents compiled by our espionage services?

Is this a correct interpretation and if so do you stand by it? If not can you please clarify what you meant?

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#68

Post by Eisenstein »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #16
jasmes wrote: post #8

Journalistic integrity balancing with the national security interests of the most powerful nation on the planet is complicated. I am comfortable trusting the NYT to do their job. I hope that eventually all the technical papers eventually are available out of nerdy curiosity, but I’d prefer that be through declassification and not espionage.

> national security interests of the most powerful nation on the planet is complicated It's actually the opposite National security of least powerfull countries, like Korea, is most complicated. They are most at risk and least likely to harm others. The most powerfull nation on earth is the opposite, it is not really in danger, its very secure, and presents the most danger to others - whether through ignorance or stu…

Do you really think that as a global power the national security interests become less complex and less serious?

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#69

Post by jimjimjim »

saulpw wrote: post #21
garciasn wrote: post #6

> Why was only 1% of the documents published, in the end? “The documents are not like the WikiLeaks ones from the US state department, which were written by diplomats and, for the most part, easily understandable,” said Ewen MacAskill. “The Snowden files are largely technical, with lots of codewords and jargon that is hard to decipher. There are pages and pages of that which the public would not be interested in. The…

> a capable public can make this determination The public is not capable, either technically nor emotionally nor politically.

This is the crux of it. You, me, that guy, we might be capable. But the Public certainly is not capable, never has been, never will be.

Re: Why only 1% of the Snowden Archive will ever be published

#70

Post by fyokdrigd »

schoen wrote: post #37
photochemsyn wrote: post #17

Snowden made a mistake in not dumping the whole archive to Wikileaks as was done with the US State Department cables and the CIA's Vault 7 files. I think there's probably a lot more in those files that's of great embarrassment not just to the NSA and the US government in general (such as proof that it was conducting an illegal warrantless mass surveillance program in violation of US law) - but also to their collabora…

> which is very hard to justify on national security grounds I think the people doing this have a completely different notion of national security than the general public, one that includes a supposed right to know about surprises in general and big events in general , not just about bad guys plotting to attack you. For example, they might believe that details of economic activity, prices, religious movements, relati…

> To be clear, I think that spying on Petrobras is wrong and I wish that Petrobras had a remedy for it.

sorry to break it to you, but the answer was too succumb to a full blow 60s style coup which remove the president who autored the Reuters article above.

she was ousted by the senate, the right wing vice who was there for "governability" signed rights to new oil reserves to texaco on his first week in power and then brazil got an election that was free for all (main candidate jailed on bogus claims, candidate working with steve banon leading, etc)

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