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Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

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Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#61

Post by coldtea »

randomdata wrote: post #58
coldtea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think those without $1000 emergency savings have retirement savings, but they just aren't liquid enough? In any case, if you want the categories separated, here you are: In 2019, about half of American households had no savings in retirement accounts, according to the Survey of Consumer Finances (SCF). These accounts include individual retirement accounts; Keogh accounts; certain employer-sponsored accounts, such…

> about half of American households had no savings in retirement accounts We're looking at those who have 20 years left, not those who could have 60 years left. Naturally one could avoid saving anything for 39 years and then plop down a $600,000 lump sum in the final second and you would be in the exact same place as someone who slowly amassed $600,000 over the span of 40 years, so half of the population having nothi…

>Naturally one could avoid saving anything for 39 years and then plop down a $600,000 lump sum in the final second and you would be in the exact same place as someone who slowly amassed $600,000 over the span of 40 years

Sure, they could for example win the Powerball.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#62

Post by nativespecies »

jzb wrote: post #54

Gen Xer here. I also want to retire early, but... not off to a good... middle? That's in large part my own fault - it wasn't even a consideration or on my radar for a very long time. I came from a blue collar background, hand-to-mouth background. We were, as John Scalzi would say, "broke" but not quite "poor." My parents didn't retire so much as age out of the workforce and scrape by. Hope Gen Z'ers do better than I…

Same, but broke millenial here. Will be working until day I die, likely. Sucks. Never had the momentum to accumulate wealth, and now I have no idea what to do.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#63

Post by randomdata »

coldtea wrote: post #61
randomdata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about half of American households had no savings in retirement accounts We're looking at those who have 20 years left, not those who could have 60 years left. Naturally one could avoid saving anything for 39 years and then plop down a $600,000 lump sum in the final second and you would be in the exact same place as someone who slowly amassed $600,000 over the span of 40 years, so half of the population having nothi…

> Naturally one could avoid saving anything for 39 years and then plop down a $600,000 lump sum in the final second and you would be in the exact same place as someone who slowly amassed $600,000 over the span of 40 years Sure, they could for example win the Powerball.

The other thing with the previous comment is that it only looks at registered retirement accounts. What about savings that can be used for retirement, but aren't registered as such? How much is found there?

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#64

Post by I_Am_Nous »

momirlan wrote: post #57
eunice wrote: post #29

a disturbing amount of the gen-z i know are full on NEET

you mean like youtubers, tik-tokers, influencers ... ?

I don't know that I would put youtubers in that category, there are a lot of youtubers who put a ton of effort into their channel and make it a business. Tik Tokers could qualify, guess it depends, but influencers can easily be either or. Making yourself into a brand takes effort but I would argue that most of the time it isn't effort that makes other people's lives better.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#65

Post by I_Am_Nous »

Mistletoe wrote: post #14

I read FIRE subreddits a lot and see a little too much optimism and unreasonable expectations. They are ready to retire with just another decade of incredible stock market returns. It’s rarely that easy. All signs point to another lost decade coming, like after 1968 and 2000, that is going to break a lot of hearts I’m afraid. Unless they plan for it appropriately and have reasonable expectations. https://financial-ch…

The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate?

Someone retiring "normally" around 60-70 has traded their labor for money, usually in ways that can benefit other people in some fashion. When they retire, there are multiple benefits -- their previous position opens up, hopefully allowing the next generation to be promoted. Their years of experience help shape the way the next generation runs the business, hopefully because they know why things are the way they are (Chesterton's Fence) and can pass that information along. This is pending the retiree not being a serial job changer of course, institutional knowledge requires people staying to learn it.

Compare that with someone who worked as little as they had to, achieved FIRE and retired early at 30. They didn't "pay into" an organization, they just extracted value and retired. They didn't help lead anything. They didn't shape the culture for the next generation. And at the risk of stereotyping, I imagine "succeeding" in FIRE would inflate one's ego in very unhealthy ways.

I don't want to say "FIRE is evil" but SOMEONE has to create the value they are extracting, and if it reaches a tipping point where more are extracting than creating, it will make for a novel problem. Replacing workers with AI is an obvious stopgap, but that just perpetuates the current, weird monetary system we have and that profit would have to be redistributed as UBI or something for it to replace workers in a way that they don't just starve.

Society is changing and it's gonna change even more so it will be interesting to see where we end up.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#66

Post by throwaway6734 »

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #65
Mistletoe wrote: post #14

I read FIRE subreddits a lot and see a little too much optimism and unreasonable expectations. They are ready to retire with just another decade of incredible stock market returns. It’s rarely that easy. All signs point to another lost decade coming, like after 1968 and 2000, that is going to break a lot of hearts I’m afraid. Unless they plan for it appropriately and have reasonable expectations. https://financial-ch…

The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate? Someone retiring "normally" around 60-70 has traded their labor for money, usually in ways that can benefit other people in some fashion. When they retire, there are multiple benefits -…

>The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate?

I wonder how many of these people are even factoring changing demographics. As the population continues to age, retirement is going to get even more expensive because labor will continue to cost more and more

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#67

Post by hotpotamus »

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #65
Mistletoe wrote: post #14

I read FIRE subreddits a lot and see a little too much optimism and unreasonable expectations. They are ready to retire with just another decade of incredible stock market returns. It’s rarely that easy. All signs point to another lost decade coming, like after 1968 and 2000, that is going to break a lot of hearts I’m afraid. Unless they plan for it appropriately and have reasonable expectations. https://financial-ch…

The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate? Someone retiring "normally" around 60-70 has traded their labor for money, usually in ways that can benefit other people in some fashion. When they retire, there are multiple benefits -…

It could get even worse - imaging that they have so much wealth that they pass it onto their children who don't even have to work till 30. You could imagine a growing class of people who don't work and merely live off their inherited wealth. Of course, that already exists; they're called wealthy people.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#68

Post by Mistletoe »

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #65
Mistletoe wrote: post #14

I read FIRE subreddits a lot and see a little too much optimism and unreasonable expectations. They are ready to retire with just another decade of incredible stock market returns. It’s rarely that easy. All signs point to another lost decade coming, like after 1968 and 2000, that is going to break a lot of hearts I’m afraid. Unless they plan for it appropriately and have reasonable expectations. https://financial-ch…

The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate? Someone retiring "normally" around 60-70 has traded their labor for money, usually in ways that can benefit other people in some fashion. When they retire, there are multiple benefits -…

I agree completely with everything you are saying. I always ask my brother- if everyone is retiring and the population is aging, who are you selling your stocks to when you want to retire?

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#69

Post by unforeseen9991 »

not_the_fda wrote: post #27
Ekaros wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or got Robin Hood account and deposited minimum amount of money to speculate on whatever...

Yes, thats what they mean by "investing". I don't consider meme stocks investing, but I'm a grumpy Gen Xer.

That's because it's not investing, it's speculating at best, and usually just gambling. Investing is just another word we've lost in recent years from people trying to justify to themselves that they aren't acting like fucking idiots.

Reminds me of Carlin's bit about the softening of language.

Re: Gen Z wants to retire early. They're off to a good start

#70

Post by Gud »

Mistletoe wrote: post #68
I_Am_Nous wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing I question about FIRE is...how many people can achieve FIRE and live off the stock market returns, essentially contributing very little to society, before society is unable to sustain the "parasitic" load they generate? Someone retiring "normally" around 60-70 has traded their labor for money, usually in ways that can benefit other people in some fashion. When they retire, there are multiple benefits -…

I agree completely with everything you are saying. I always ask my brother- if everyone is retiring and the population is aging, who are you selling your stocks to when you want to retire?

Why would you need to sell them? Many companies pay dividends.
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