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Nuclear Conversion for Starship

toughsf.blogspot.com

61–70 of 155 posts

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to play Kerbel Space Program. I have absolutely no intuition about this sort of thing. Some intuition around orbital mechanics from my physics days but rocketry is a bit of a mystery.

For me it helped to remember that the term that matters in the rocket equation is exhaust velocity , not momentum. You want to be shooting the lightest things you can out the back of the rocket, at the highest speed. Unfortunately with chemical rockets, the energy source and reaction mass are the same thing, so you're kind of stuck with whatever burning your fuel gives you. But when you can separate reaction mass fro…

Mostly true. However, there's tradeoffs qua thrust and specific impulse for different propellants. For pure vacuum work hydrogen is a good candidate. For operating in a gravity field (eg. the moon), you might be able to use a smaller nuclear engine with a denser propellant. Obviously you ARE trading in some range when doing this. But if the question is whether you can get off the ground in the first place, you may have less of a choice. It might also depend on what you can actually lay your hands on qua ISRU (if/when relevant)

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#62

Aren't SpaceX launch explosions big enough already?

I don't know why you're downvoted. I think it's a legitimate question. When I was in high school I asked " Why don't we just shoot our nuclear waste into the sun? ". As an adult, Kerbal Space Program has taught me that it's incredibly difficult to lose the orbital velocity and get things into the Sun! But the answer my teachers told me was "Well, even if rockets have a 99.5% success rate and a 0.5% failure rate, and…

Yes, but nuclear reactors carried up to space for rockets or electricity can still make sense. Before you turn on your reactor it's not very radioactive, to survive to the present day uranium has to have a very long half-life which means low radioactivity. But as soon as you turn it on you start transmuting the uranium into all sorts of things with much shorter half-lives and so much higher radioactivity.

So its safe to fly a new reactor into a stable orbit, if something bad happens you'll scatter some uranium but that's just toxic heavy metal bad, not radiation hazard bad. Just make sure the orbit is high enough to be stable, not like Kosmos 1402.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_1402

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#63
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read to the end? That's the idea he ends up with: only use nuclear propulsion for space-to-space travel where you don't care as much about shielding.

I make no claims about my reading comprehension. That last bit seemed too narrow to me. Once you have all the bits in orbit, shielding doesn’t seem too onerous. Is the claim that even space-space shielding + reactor is too heavy to be worth the advantage of the nuclear drive?

No, they are saying that the nuclear drive shall be reserved to a shuttle that remains in space. At that point, it makes much more sense as you can really use the nuclear drive to its full capabilities.

> If we need the full performance advantage of nuclear propulsion, we should design a spaceship that is intended for it from the get-go. It never lands, only going from orbit to orbit, so there is no need for heat shielding, flaps, high thrust engines, thick steel structure or aerodynamic shaping requirements.

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#64
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read to the end? That's the idea he ends up with: only use nuclear propulsion for space-to-space travel where you don't care as much about shielding.

I make no claims about my reading comprehension. That last bit seemed too narrow to me. Once you have all the bits in orbit, shielding doesn’t seem too onerous. Is the claim that even space-space shielding + reactor is too heavy to be worth the advantage of the nuclear drive?

In space if you’re careful you only need a plate of shielding between the drive and the crew/cargo section.

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#65
post #9

AFAIK, the only nuclear rocket that makes sense is landing a reactor on an icy comet and using it to shoot super heated steam wherever you want thrust. #seveneves

The Project Orion design (shoot hundreds of fission bombs out the back and ride the shock wave on a reaction plate) is surprisingly practical, and probably our only way to get humans past Mars. It's just kind of terrifying.

The energy required to accelerate a useful amount of mass to a high enough velocity to travel interplanetary (or interstellar) distances in a timely manner is always going to be terrifying. Even if it runs on rainbows and hugs the kinetic energy imparted to the payload would turn it into a planet killer if you ever rammed it into one. Managing that risk so you get the payoff without any accidents along the way is the only sensible thing to do.

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#66

First I am reading about nuclear engines applied to Starship. I wonder if it would be more practical to launch the reactor, fuel, and propellant into orbit using conventional rockets. Later a mission could pick up this Nuclear rocket engine and use it as a sort of booster while not inside a strong gravitational field. Ofc that doesn’t sound like Starship at all.

That was (part of) the original plan, post Apollo program. Somehow it got stripped down to to just a space shuttle. :-( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Transportation_System

The "we haven't solved all of our problems on Earth yet" crowd . . . as if we ever will.

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#67
post #9

AFAIK, the only nuclear rocket that makes sense is landing a reactor on an icy comet and using it to shoot super heated steam wherever you want thrust. #seveneves

The Project Orion design (shoot hundreds of fission bombs out the back and ride the shock wave on a reaction plate) is surprisingly practical, and probably our only way to get humans past Mars. It's just kind of terrifying.

Not really any more terrifying than driving around in vehicles powered by thousands of tiny explosions per minute.

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#68
post #54
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For specific impulse. When you have unlimited power, you want the lightest possible molecular mass exhaust for the best total delta V.

So, since beta radiation is even lower mass... just put a block of nickel-63 into a magnetic lens?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electric_rocket

Re: Nuclear Conversion for Starship

#69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Project Orion design (shoot hundreds of fission bombs out the back and ride the shock wave on a reaction plate) is surprisingly practical, and probably our only way to get humans past Mars. It's just kind of terrifying.

Not really any more terrifying than driving around in vehicles powered by thousands of tiny explosions per minute.

If someone siphons your gas tank, they're not going to be able to nuke Paris. But a nuclear pulse rocket needs thousands of bomblets the size of coke cans. That's the scary part.
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