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Organizing a labor union is not work? Fascinating opinion.
Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
61–70 of 159 posts
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Companies are totally entitled to stick to the law, but they also need to then deal with the fact that narrow compliance with the law might bring them into conflict with parts of society (who in turn might stick to the law in dealing with them). That said, we already have determined that generally just "sticking to the law" isn't a great defense in all situations anyway.
In a free society based on the rule of law, you cannot demand that anyone goes beyond the law. That's a key principle. Now, as mentioned, in business other parties can also use their legal rights to bring about negotiations, but let's not depict Tesla as horrible for simply staying within the law...
We have long determined that the rule of law is only one component of a functioning society. There is a lot of stuff beyond the rule of law that makes things work. Anyone not understanding that will have trouble in any society.
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the UK a 'scab' is usually a pejorative term for someone who does not strike, which is not the same as a strikebreaker.
I thought strikereaker meant someone who isn't striking, or who was but has now changed their minds?
A strikebreaker is usually someone external hired specifically to replace a striking worker. That's why this may or may not be restricted by law.
Very often a 'scab' (which, again, is an insult) is simply an existing worker who's decided not to srike and who constinues to work as usual. Though the term may also refer to a strikebreaker.
Anyway, it's similar.
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#64Elon acting like a true South African born in the 80's. Niemand gaan my fokken vertel nie :). Die Blerrie Commies. Translation - Nobody is going to tell me how to do things. Esp Bloody Socialists.
En niemand praten Nederlands so goed als en Afrikaans :D
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a free society based on the rule of law, you cannot demand that anyone goes beyond the law. That's a key principle. Now, as mentioned, in business other parties can also use their legal rights to bring about negotiations, but let's not depict Tesla as horrible for simply staying within the law...
We have long determined that the rule of law is only one component of a functioning society. There is a lot of stuff beyond the rule of law that makes things work. Anyone not understanding that will have trouble in any society.
And mob rule is a recipe for a nasty society...
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not following Tesla things but don't they have factories in Germany and didn't they face the same problem ?
Have the German unions forced the issue yet?
The situation is a little different. IIRC Tesla's trying to hire on the cheap here in Germany, and not succeeding very well, and is in... a... let's say a discussion process with the Man about the number of accidents in a Tesla factory.
Such discussions with the Man tend to be quiet, polite and slow at first, but the Man will eventually lose patience. I saw a photo in the newspaper of someone who couldn't discuss his tax issues due to health issues; the photo showed him being wheeled into court in his hospital bed.
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have long determined that the rule of law is only one component of a functioning society. There is a lot of stuff beyond the rule of law that makes things work. Anyone not understanding that will have trouble in any society.
And mob rule is a recipe for a nasty society...
How is that in any way mob rule? Is having care and consideration for your fellow citizens mob rule, for example?
What you want is much closer to mob rule, as seen by societies using the law for horrible purposes. Narrow legalistic views allow for the most horrible atrocities.
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#68This kind of nonsense doesn't play well in Europe. Nor should it. > The company is refusing to sign one, IF Metall has reported, saying that company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world. Welcome to Europe, Elon.
Well he may simply fire all locals and bring in all-foreign staff. What will stop him? Salaries Tesla pay are sufficient for Blue Card or similar permit.
There are a couple of different ways the union might "fight" (not sure of the english term). They can block things physically, like standing around the shop to prevent people in/out. They can also expand the strike outside Teslas shops, for example to transportation companies supplying parts to Tesla etc.
Given how core this question is to the Swedish Unions and Sweden in general, I expect it would be very easy to get support for many wide-reaching actions both from other unions and from the public. (For example, there's no minimum salary in Sweden, instead the companies & unions are supposed to handle it)
Here's a reasonable description (google translated) about what might happen: https://www-svensktnaringsliv-se.translate.goog/sakomraden/a...
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#69This kind of nonsense doesn't play well in Europe. Nor should it. > The company is refusing to sign one, IF Metall has reported, saying that company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world. Welcome to Europe, Elon.
I am not following Tesla things but don't they have factories in Germany and didn't they face the same problem ?
Tesla tried to keep unions out but apparently IG Metall (the largest and politically most powerful industrial trade union in Germany) announced earlier this month that more than a thousand workers at the Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg joined the union: https://www.igmetall.de/im-betrieb/ig-metall-organisiert-tes...
According to the union's statement, a third of all workers is on sick leave at any given time due to workplace injuries. They're also paid below union rate despite claims to the contrary by Tesla management. Tesla also tried to preempt a union recruiting event by giving the workers free pea soup so they'd stay in throughout the lunch break and not talk to the union reps waiting outside the factory.
To me it sounds like the union just got its foot in the door at Tesla Germany and we're not at the point yet where organized action like a strike is feasible. It's worth mentioning that German employment law prohibits a company from hiring temp workers to take over the job of a striking employee, at the threat of a fine of up to €500k. On the other hand, there are strict laws around strikes for workers too, e.g. solidarity strikes are prohibited.
Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
#70Welcome to Europe Elon.