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We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

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Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#61

Post by paul7986 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

There was a definite bro culture reminiscent of Uber's and we all see all the horrible actions Uber did to try to win / kill it. Unfortunately killing an innocent pedesterian in the process of trying to win / kill it.

Cruise's responses to their many negative events read like Uber's and I expressed my distaste for Cruise numerous times on here because of their bro trying to kill it attitudes (if you're not for robot cars you're out of touch being one example).

I'm not surprised and maybe sharper and more adult heads in GM stopped the program in time saving another poor innocent pedestrian from being mangled by training wheel robot car technology. I.e. The cars all came to a screeching halt when the 5G network it used was clogged up due a concert nearby (wow). It relied on a public 5G network?

Maybe one day robot cars it will be safer then a humans if so it will take decades to more yet is that progress worth these algorithms learning at the expense of more innocent lives?

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#62

Post by xnx »

7e wrote: post #51
bobthepanda wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main obstacle to better transit in a developed countries is the cost and scarcity of labor. An automated bus would basically eliminate most of the running cost; make it electric and it would be pennies on the dollar compared to running a bus today.

I think an automated bus would have enough electronics such that it would cost a lot more than the bus driver for a long, long time. At least that's the status quo. A Waymo car costs a lot more than a $7K Uber Prius.

Self driving technology (sensors, processing, etc.) gets dramatically cheaper every year, but bus drivers get more expensive. The $200K of equipment that goes on a self-driving car now might drop to $50K in 5 years time.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#63

Post by drdrey »

polalavik wrote: post #17
xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#64

Post by melling »

polalavik wrote: post #17
xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?”

40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents

We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000

it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now.

Let’s start by having trains take you to the airport directly…

In the meantime, getting self driving cars that are all electric will be a big win. Perhaps car ownership will drop.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#65

Post by antli35 »

ajross wrote: post #35
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #20

What I find interesting is that this "press release" reads like a response to an exposé of a toxic internal company culture. But as far as I can tell, this was just a technology failure. It's not very clear to me why they need to "examine their processes" and "take a hard look inwards at how they do work" in order to rectify what was basically a software bug.

Actually I'm having a hard time even seeing it as that much of a bug. As I understand the accident, the woman trapped wasn't visible from anywhere in the vehicle or its sensors. Any human driver would likely have done the same thing (pull over after a collision when your vehicle is still drivable). It's a terrible situation for the victim, but it's not something reasonably preventable by safety technology of any kind…

If a pedestrian gets flung in front of your car and then you no longer see them, wouldn't you be inclined to check whether they might have gone under your car? Especially if you're hearing screaming...

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#66

Post by hiddencost »

uejfiweun wrote: post #22

Are self-driving cars actually going to be lucrative? Yes, the progress is promising, but it seems to me (as an observer that knows nothing) that things aren't very scalable. - It seems like every city pretty much requires a custom-tailored solution, and they still haven't solved the "downtown" problem. - It's far more of a regulatory minefield than a pure software business model. - The cars themselves, in addition t…

"IIUC the leader, Waymo, does all the computation in the cloud, so you're hosed if the network goes down."

Book recommendation: Ada Palmer's "Seven Surrenders".

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#67

Post by diebeforei485 »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
polalavik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

You’re not the only one. It seems to me we should be trying to get rid of cars in favour of mass transport or two-wheel personal transport. Having personal transport in the form of cars makes little sense in cities where space is at a premium. Where I live, to get across the city on public transport takes 40 minutes and a bus change. I can cycle it in 20. Replacing human-driven cars with driverless cars is going to m…

The limiting factor for increasing bus frequency and adding new routes is the lack of operators.

Having self-driving buses will obviously help in cities. And given the higher momentum, the margin for error is lower for self-driving buses and it's better to start with cars.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#68

Post by Foreignborn »

xnx wrote: post #50
mathieuh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not the only one. It seems to me we should be trying to get rid of cars in favour of mass transport or two-wheel personal transport. Having personal transport in the form of cars makes little sense in cities where space is at a premium. Where I live, to get across the city on public transport takes 40 minutes and a bus change. I can cycle it in 20. Replacing human-driven cars with driverless cars is going to m…

> When I think back to the covid lockdowns and how much nicer and more spacious the city felt with no cars on the roads, that’s what I think cities should be like. Me too! Short of another global pandemic, the best thing to have on the ride beside "no cars" is self-driving vehicles.

I don’t follow why that’s the next best thing.

It seems like making cars more convenient would induce demand (i.e. add more cars), opposite of what the parent comments desire.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#69

Post by jjulius »

bombcar wrote: post #34
uejfiweun wrote: post #22

Are self-driving cars actually going to be lucrative? Yes, the progress is promising, but it seems to me (as an observer that knows nothing) that things aren't very scalable. - It seems like every city pretty much requires a custom-tailored solution, and they still haven't solved the "downtown" problem. - It's far more of a regulatory minefield than a pure software business model. - The cars themselves, in addition t…

They will be lucractive if one company succeeds and can charge "human taxi fares" for driverless rides, and pocket the difference. That almost certainly won't happen, so it will be a hellrush of legislation and funding resulting in crashing prices and soaring costs and bankruptcies galore.

>That almost certainly won't happen, so it will be a hellrush of legislation and funding resulting in crashing prices and soaring costs and bankruptcies galore.

Ooh, chaos! I'll start the popcorn.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#70

Post by kdmccormick »

minwcnt5 wrote: post #56
polalavik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

If public transit can't be solved in SF, the second densest city in the US, there's no hope for the rest of America outside NYC. On average it takes close to twice as long to get from point A to B in SF using public transit than with Waymo. And for the walking portions you're likely dealing with either hills or sketchy areas.

Public transit can be solved in the US. Plenty of other countries have done it. That's why it's so exhausting that so many of our brightest minds AND the public's imagination of the future are dedicated to turning our unsustainably-car-centric cities into possibly-safer-but-still-unsustainably-car-centric cities instead of, you know, modern cities with good transit.
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