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Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

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Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how this helps explain that to you.

i think he's pointing out how a male-dominated culture would respond with mansplaining about one's responsibility to adapt to the workplace, where a woman-dominated culture might focus more on the emotional toll of such failing to adapt edit: on second thought, your comment might be snarking about how a poll is unnecessary to assume that this is a male-dominated space, making me the fool

According to the profile, TaylorAlexander is a she/her pronouned person.

I was a homemaker for a couple of decades. I spent 5 years and 3 months working at a Fortune 500 company. I have since done freelance work and I'm a blogger.

I haven't spent a lot of time in "the work place" -- by which I mean heteronormative assumptions that the only real work is paid work and women's work doesn't count. My place of work for much of my adult life was my home, and not in a "work from home" sense.

Anyway, I'm not being snarky. I'm just some demographic outlier who thinks a lot about how gender interacts with societal expectations about work and my ideas about it generally fall outside the Overton Window, so I say a lot less than I used to because it tends to be pointless drama where everyone wants to accuse me of something while not seeming at all interested in what I'm trying to say.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#63
post #33
post #29

The one thing I valued most about online communities at least "back in the day" was not knowing this stuff. I could genuinely be interacting with people as persons without being biased about them. It was the great equalizer and part of what drew me towards "the hacker's manifesto". Most of us I think fail to understand what an immense treasure of justice anonymity or at least pseudonymity is. It sucks that the modern…

Not knowing the gender (distribution) of commenters is not knowing the underlying bias in the replies of these commenters. Thus no, such info shouldn't be banned.

I disagree, the underlying bias a person has is irrelevant if they can prove to others the correctness of what they are saying. You are wanting to put people in boxes and stereotype as if they're not capable of compensating for bias or understanding others' perspective.

If it is a subjective comment and personal experience is relevant, the commenter can disclose that detail there and then. However, where fact or analysis of information is involved, it is the correctness and quality of what is said that matters not who said it.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#64

Current figures: 14 non-binary 18 women (counting me) 329 men 3 prefer to self describe 364 total votes, about 5 percent female and 5 percent "other", so roughly 90 percent male. When I joined, polls showed it to be more like 98 percent male. So non-male membership/participation has possibly quintupled in the 14+ years I've been here. This fits with my general impression as a participant. Nice to have a little data.…

> When I joined, polls showed it to be more like 98 percent male. So non-male membership/participation has possibly quintupled in the 14+ years I've been here.

I mention in a separate comment that there is strong reasons to believe this survey is unrepresentative of the HN population, but say it was representative both right now and 14+ years ago. Here are a few things worth baring in mind when making the above inference:

1. Did HN cover the same population now that it did 14+ years ago?

2. Did the survey 14+ years ago include the same options? Were participants equally likely to identify with the given options?

3. The sampling mean in both cases will have significant error. Differences ought to be outside of at least 2 standard deviations to be considered significant.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think he's pointing out how a male-dominated culture would respond with mansplaining about one's responsibility to adapt to the workplace, where a woman-dominated culture might focus more on the emotional toll of such failing to adapt edit: on second thought, your comment might be snarking about how a poll is unnecessary to assume that this is a male-dominated space, making me the fool

According to the profile, TaylorAlexander is a she/her pronouned person. I was a homemaker for a couple of decades. I spent 5 years and 3 months working at a Fortune 500 company. I have since done freelance work and I'm a blogger. I haven't spent a lot of time in "the work place" -- by which I mean heteronormative assumptions that the only real work is paid work and women's work doesn't count. My place of work for mu…

may you continue to hold the fort and other such women's work

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the profile, TaylorAlexander is a she/her pronouned person. I was a homemaker for a couple of decades. I spent 5 years and 3 months working at a Fortune 500 company. I have since done freelance work and I'm a blogger. I haven't spent a lot of time in "the work place" -- by which I mean heteronormative assumptions that the only real work is paid work and women's work doesn't count. My place of work for mu…

may you continue to hold the fort and other such women's work

I'm divorced and in desperate need of earned income.

But I thank you for your well wishes.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#67
post #64

Current figures: 14 non-binary 18 women (counting me) 329 men 3 prefer to self describe 364 total votes, about 5 percent female and 5 percent "other", so roughly 90 percent male. When I joined, polls showed it to be more like 98 percent male. So non-male membership/participation has possibly quintupled in the 14+ years I've been here. This fits with my general impression as a participant. Nice to have a little data.…

> When I joined, polls showed it to be more like 98 percent male. So non-male membership/participation has possibly quintupled in the 14+ years I've been here. I mention in a separate comment that there is strong reasons to believe this survey is unrepresentative of the HN population, but say it was representative both right now and 14+ years ago. Here are a few things worth baring in mind when making the above infer…

I originally joined in July 2009. HN was a lot smaller back then and demographic polls were somewhat common at first, at least comparatively. They later became less common.

There was variation in poll results, but my recollection is the variation was something like 96 to 99 percent male. At some point, I settled on a figure of "roughly 98 percent" as a good faith estimate.

I have a Certificate in GIS and a relatively strong math background for the general population, though not for HN, and I know a little CSS and HTML, but I'm not really a programmer, I'm not perceived of as "a tech person" by the HN crowd, etc. I feel I "belong"/fit but it's pretty clear to me most people feel I don't.

When I hit something like 2000 karma under my old handle -- and probably the top 3 people on the leaderboard all had about 50k at the time -- I began getting weird comments that suggested to me I was viewed as "prominent for a woman" on HN, though the bottom of the leaderboard was probably around 10k at the time.

I'm a big fat nobody in the real world and was nowhere near qualifying as having "a lot" of karma for HN and yet comments seemed to suggest people found me noteworthy. So I spent some time keeping private data to try to sort out what the heck was going on.

Those records are long lost and I'm disinclined to say too much about them publicly, but I mention them to say I did track data of some sort related to gender and HN membership for a time.

Things have changed over time and commenting as openly female is less drama for me than it used to be. There are many, many confounding factors that make it impossible to determine how much that is cultural change related to gender and how much that's somehow "me"/my relationship to the site, but I've observed that I notice openly female participants more often and topics seem to include more articles by and/or about women in a way that seems like inclusion is more normalized than it was 14 years ago. Or even 10 years ago.

The data here generally fits with my personal observations and impressions that HN is more diverse than it used to be. I don't feel it matters a whole lot if it's off by a bit. It makes little difference to me whether the "non male" demographics is double, triple, quintuple or septuple the roughly 2 percent it once was. I feel and see the difference and presumably others do too that they show up more, percentage-wise.

I commented because I'm probably the only person who has a history of tracking gender-related data on HN and I know how this goes: People see the low figures and start having fits about sexism.

I'm just trying to provide context. Yes, HN skews very strongly male. It used to skew even more strongly male according to my personal observations and polls of this sort.

FWIW.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#68
post #63
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing the gender (distribution) of commenters is not knowing the underlying bias in the replies of these commenters. Thus no, such info shouldn't be banned.

I disagree, the underlying bias a person has is irrelevant if they can prove to others the correctness of what they are saying. You are wanting to put people in boxes and stereotype as if they're not capable of compensating for bias or understanding others' perspective. If it is a subjective comment and personal experience is relevant, the commenter can disclose that detail there and then. However, where fact or anal…

> I disagree, the underlying bias a person has is irrelevant if they can prove to others the correctness of what they are saying.

Which isn't the case for everything, and if it is the case, it isn't done always (most of the time).

> You are wanting to put people in boxes and stereotype as if they're not capable of compensating for bias

I am not. Capability doesn't matter if they aren't even aware of their own bias or don't care.

> understanding others' perspective.

No, relevance?

> However, where fact or analysis of information is involved, it is the correctness and quality of what is said that matters not who said it.

Even if something is correct the information they give might be selective while neglecting other perspectives because of their bias, may it be on purpose or not.

Tldr: I think you portrait people as perfectly self aware and free of self interest, which isn't the case on reality which is exactly why groups of people show biases.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#69
post #29

The one thing I valued most about online communities at least "back in the day" was not knowing this stuff. I could genuinely be interacting with people as persons without being biased about them. It was the great equalizer and part of what drew me towards "the hacker's manifesto". Most of us I think fail to understand what an immense treasure of justice anonymity or at least pseudonymity is. It sucks that the modern…

Eh, it's one thing to know the gender of individuals.

It's another thing to have anonymized statistics about the community.

Re: Poll: What are the gender demographics of HN?

#70
post #29

The one thing I valued most about online communities at least "back in the day" was not knowing this stuff. I could genuinely be interacting with people as persons without being biased about them. It was the great equalizer and part of what drew me towards "the hacker's manifesto". Most of us I think fail to understand what an immense treasure of justice anonymity or at least pseudonymity is. It sucks that the modern…

Eh, it's one thing to know the gender of individuals. It's another thing to have anonymized statistics about the community.

It's not all that different when 95% are of the same gender.
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