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I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

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Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#61

Post by mistercheph »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #54
wongarsu wrote: post #3

I really like I2P as a project, and I think it gets a lot of things right. For example having every network participant relay some internal traffic, instead of relying on altruism from relay operators, makes it much harder for a single entity to control enough hops to deanonymize users. Sadly, outside of torrenting I2P doesn't seem to have much traction, losing out to the better funded tor project

One of the reasons people were wary of Freenet, where every user would participate in the hosting, was that if the encryption algorithm was ever broken, people would undoubtedly be revealed to have been passing CSAM along. Unwittingly, but still. Does I2P’s model not spark the same concerns?

Does any transmission method where the message is even partially concealed from the messenger not spark the same concern? E.g. Postal services.

I am pretty sure not blaming the messenger for the message is a legal notion that predates Hammurabi's code.

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#62

Post by OfSanguineFire »

ensignavenger wrote: post #60
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons people were wary of Freenet, where every user would participate in the hosting, was that if the encryption algorithm was ever broken, people would undoubtedly be revealed to have been passing CSAM along. Unwittingly, but still. Does I2P’s model not spark the same concerns?

Do ISPs worry about relaying TLS traffic because if the encryption is ever broken, it will be revealed that they were relaying CSAM? There isn't any difference to an i2p node relaying encrypted data and and ISP doing it.

ISPs are, especially in the wake of mergers in many countries, large corporations with lawyers. An I2P node might be run by an individual who lacks that security, and this is just something that can be used against that person if he comes to the attention of the authorities for whatever reason. It’s like the risks of individuals’ running Tor exit nodes, which are well known.

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#63

Post by codezero »

usefulcat wrote: post #31
HDThoreaun wrote: post #26

I was sad to see i2p's maintainer zzz quit the project after he got some pushback about politics I think. Reminded me to be thankful for all the unpaid hard work open source maintainers put in.

Was that the reason? I never heard what the reason was. It was a very abrupt departure for sure.

One of the maintainers added an inclusion statement onto the footer of the website and a few developers thought it was pushing an LGBT agenda so they quit. This was from a quick search, I’m sure there was more to it than that - one part was that some were mad they weren’t even consulted before it was added and misrepresented their views.

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#64

Post by OfSanguineFire »

codezero wrote: post #63
usefulcat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that the reason? I never heard what the reason was. It was a very abrupt departure for sure.

One of the maintainers added an inclusion statement onto the footer of the website and a few developers thought it was pushing an LGBT agenda so they quit. This was from a quick search, I’m sure there was more to it than that - one part was that some were mad they weren’t even consulted before it was added and misrepresented their views.

That inclusion statement seems very badly thought out and quite Western-centric. For many people in oppressive states who rely on censorship-resistant and privacy-guaranteeing software, being a dissident isn’t necessarily about defending minorities or trying to make the world a better place. It’s often about retreating into a private world with your fellows and trying to live your life as best you can under the circumstances. So, IMO it’s better not to specify any specific social-justice goals for projects like these.

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#66

Post by j45 »

warner25 wrote: post #58
wongarsu wrote: post #3

I really like I2P as a project, and I think it gets a lot of things right. For example having every network participant relay some internal traffic, instead of relying on altruism from relay operators, makes it much harder for a single entity to control enough hops to deanonymize users. Sadly, outside of torrenting I2P doesn't seem to have much traction, losing out to the better funded tor project

> gets a lot of things right... having every network participant relay some internal traffic There are trade-offs. The Tor Project has its reasons for not doing this (from https://support.torproject.org/alternate-designs/ ): "...many Tor users cannot be good relays — for example, some Tor clients operate from behind restrictive firewalls, connect via modem, or otherwise aren't in a position where they can relay traff…

Not often a network protocol / communication thread breaks out

Neat point. I wonder if the percentage of bandwidth shared could be relative to the speed or openness of network available?

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#67

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

Borg3 wrote: post #38
fishgoesblub wrote: post #11

This appears to link to the C++ version of I2P. Not the original "Official" Java version which is more complex and has much more built-in features: https://geti2p.net

Oh, I need to take a look at this.. I hate Java. I wonder why such a low level thing does NOT have C implementation actually.

Perhaps security was a concern

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#68

Post by miohtama »

warner25 wrote: post #58
wongarsu wrote: post #3

I really like I2P as a project, and I think it gets a lot of things right. For example having every network participant relay some internal traffic, instead of relying on altruism from relay operators, makes it much harder for a single entity to control enough hops to deanonymize users. Sadly, outside of torrenting I2P doesn't seem to have much traction, losing out to the better funded tor project

> gets a lot of things right... having every network participant relay some internal traffic There are trade-offs. The Tor Project has its reasons for not doing this (from https://support.torproject.org/alternate-designs/ ): "...many Tor users cannot be good relays — for example, some Tor clients operate from behind restrictive firewalls, connect via modem, or otherwise aren't in a position where they can relay traff…

Originally Skype and Spotify had their own peer-to-peer networks and distribution.

Both stopped using them because it worked so badly.

Re: I2P: End-to-end encrypted and anonymous internet

#70

Post by EGreg »

I used to really geek out on this space, since I'm building a decentralized Internet suite myself.

I interviewed Ian Clarke, the creator of Freenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWrRqUkJpMQ

PerfectDark was another interesting one.

And my favorite is http://maidsafe.net/ -- they are finally close to releasing, after 14 years! (Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with them)

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