Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested • Hacker News Board

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#61

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:31 AM UTC

f233f2 wrote: post #52

eh8 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised he was able to make such statements for this long. I genuinely wonder why his captors even continue to let him live, when it seems like any post-2022 civil protest in Russia can and will be brutally repressed.

If he was making such statements (I'm not following this), does that mean that his lawyers were indeed being used by him to pass letters and that this is not propaganda?

Russian regime is strangely obsessed with following some procedure and complying to some law, even if it sounds like a joke. In this case they just found the way to legally stop publication of his statements and what they say is true if you accept their narrative as a whole. Still it is just propaganda and lie, because it is based on highly illegal (unconstitutional) foundation. The laws that they passed, the judicial process - everything is rotten to the roots.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#62

Post by RetroTechie » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:31 AM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #29

r721 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>knowing I think the risk was huge (personally I thought 50-70% at the time), but not 99% or something. Also (in my opinion) people don't take into account that alternative was irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia, and he was a prominent opposition activist in 2011-2012.

Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance - I mean, in the West he could have probably lived a comfortable life writing books and articles, working as a TV expert on Russia etc. I also respect his decision, but seeing that the powers that be already tried to kill him once, the chances of him returning to Russia and not being arrested were even lower than 1% I would say...

> Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance

That's exactly what sets rare individuals like Navalny apart: that what they believe in, what they stand for, weighs heavier than their personal well-being.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#63

Post by r721 » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

f233f2 wrote: post #52

eh8 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised he was able to make such statements for this long. I genuinely wonder why his captors even continue to let him live, when it seems like any post-2022 civil protest in Russia can and will be brutally repressed.

If he was making such statements (I'm not following this), does that mean that his lawyers were indeed being used by him to pass letters and that this is not propaganda?

The propaganda part is that his organization is "terrorist".

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#64

Post by ftl64 » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

thriftwy wrote: post #58

ftl64 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has allowed the Russian state to treat him with such a degree of cruelty is the war with Ukraine. News of his arrest, imprisonment, and treatment in jail were overshadowed by those of another airstrike on a civilian population. Not to mention, it sent a clear message to internal opposition that those willing to act against the state would face not just legal hurdles but also tyranny and physical violence.

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Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#65

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:35 AM UTC

squarefoot wrote: post #57

r721 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One poll from May 2023 that I saw (the pollster is quite respectable): "When asked 300 days before presidential elections Russians say they would vote for: 30,2% Putin 2% Prigozhin 2% Navalny 1.3% Zhirinovsky (who is dead)" https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1663222792605630464 https://russianfield.com/300days Not a lot, but still higher than other non-Putin candidates (except Prigozhin, who is now dead)

So, except Putin, all others are either dead or rendered inoffensive and likely be killed as well after the public forgets about them.

Plenty of other candidates are spoilers that add legitimacy to elections. They may have some popular support, but time to time they make statements or do something that portrays them as clowns to the majority, reducing their electoral base and making them not dangerous to Putin.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#66

Post by Tarq0n » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

rasz wrote: post #56

Darmody wrote: post #7

I have a huge respect for Navalny. They tried to murder him and after spending time in a German hospital he decided to go back knowing that they'll imprison him or try to kill him again.

You do know his political stance, right? https://twitter.com/krides/status/1509841011295592450 Do you also have huge respect for Prigozhin for flying back to Moscow after agreeing to stop the revolt? Same energy.

Pluralism can be valuable even if all the participants are reprehensible. Ideally they compete each other to a standstill, allowing separation of powers and human rights to gain a foothold.

That said western media does have the habit of glossing over the actual platform of any dictators opposition, see for instance the breathless adoration the Dalai Lama gets.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#67

Post by r721 » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:37 AM UTC

squarefoot wrote: post #57

r721 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One poll from May 2023 that I saw (the pollster is quite respectable): "When asked 300 days before presidential elections Russians say they would vote for: 30,2% Putin 2% Prigozhin 2% Navalny 1.3% Zhirinovsky (who is dead)" https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1663222792605630464 https://russianfield.com/300days Not a lot, but still higher than other non-Putin candidates (except Prigozhin, who is now dead)

So, except Putin, all others are either dead or rendered inoffensive and likely be killed as well after the public forgets about them.

Just for clarity: I copy-pasted from a tweet, the list is longer on the actual chart from the poll: https://thumb.tildacdn.com/tild3833-6564-4031-b932-623365633...

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#68

Post by drones » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:37 AM UTC

ChrisRR wrote: post #32

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I've seen quite a few articles on HN relating to free speech issues, both domestic stories in the US and abroad. I made one such submission about my home state South Australia and it was fine.

I feel like freedom and self-autonomy form part of the ethos of a hacker, but hell I might be wrong.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#69

Post by egao1980 » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:39 AM UTC

patrakov wrote: post #4

The official version spread by the propaganda is that his lawyers did not only what lawyers should do, but also helped him pass letters from the jail to the outside world and thus control his "terrorist" organization (Anti-Corruption Foundation). This counts as complicity and direct participation in the deeds of a "terrorist" organization.

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Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#70

Post by RetroTechie » Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 9:40 AM UTC

r721 wrote: post #38

throwaway4good wrote: post #25

How much popular support does Navalny have in Russia? (I realize Russia is a banana republic and Navalny is a hero but does he actually represent something that has wide support in Russia? From the few Russians I have talked to, they seems supportive of Putin despite everything.)

One poll from May 2023 that I saw (the pollster is quite respectable): "When asked 300 days before presidential elections Russians say they would vote for: 30,2% Putin 2% Prigozhin 2% Navalny 1.3% Zhirinovsky (who is dead)" https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1663222792605630464 https://russianfield.com/300days Not a lot, but still higher than other non-Putin candidates (except Prigozhin, who is now dead)

So, with Putin out of the picture he'd be leading the pack?