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Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

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Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#61

Post by the_af »

watwut wrote: post #58
the_af wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just these criticisms are not generally welcomed or amplified for figures in the prime of their accolades. Which is an interesting subject itself, I think. I want to make clear that when someone commits a horrible crime (not a minor transgression) they should be held accountable. So rape/abuse/murder is horrible, being a bad husband/wife or an uncaring parent is bad but not "horrible", etc. Also, people are fl…

Saying he did X is not the same as cancelation. Also, if actual art piece is related to the real world acts, it is entirely fair to talk about it. Just like when we talk about political purposes of art. There is also difference between "not mentioning person existed" and refusal to celebrate that person as hero or moral founder. Or just, putting contemporary complains about historical character into context. The "do…

> Saying he did X is not the same as cancelation

Cinema students are literally asking teachers not to include Woody Allen in their syllabus. I don't know if everywhere, but I'm telling you of a second hand account of someone I know who witnessed this. And it's not the only example.

> There is also difference between "not mentioning person existed" and refusal to celebrate that person as hero or moral founder.

This brings us back to the initial comment I posted in this thread: why celebrate a public figure as a hero or moral founder? People seem to want to do this. Everyone must be either a hero or a villain; and a hero who falls from grace and turns into a villain in the public eye is doubly reviled!

It's fascinating but also irritating how we are so eager to create gods and then destroy them.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#62

Post by lovecg »

pohl wrote: post #46
wincy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because my wife home schools and has chosen to forgo a professional career to care for our disabled daughter, depriving us of a substantial income, and I don’t think the tax dollars I do pay should subsidize the public schools we can’t even use due to our child’s medical needs? Mind you, I live in an area with middle class incomes, so the families can definitely afford the school lunches. Am I a bad person?

Interesting that you framed this not about how perhaps you and your daughter ought be eligible for some subsidies, but rather about what subsidies you feel should be taken away from others, as if their needs have no merit.

The only thing that gets taken away here is a part of your income by the government. The rest is arguing over how this taken money should be doled out. Something that was not yours to begin with cannot be “taken away”.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#63

Post by avar »

jjulius wrote: post #53
Dig1t wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read a lot about Feynman and have never read that. Would love to see a source.

Edit: Note that I have no opinion here, just answering someone's request for a source. A cursory Google reveals... > Neither were Feynman's escapades limited to bars; more than one of his biographies have documented affairs with two married women, at least one of which caused him considerable problems.[0] Charlie Munger seems to be a source for claims that he would sleep with the wives of his undergrad students[2]. A…

There's an alternative universe where Feynman came of age in the 90s.

Instead of learning to play the bongos he dropped a series of EP's detailing how he really felt about the opposite sex.

We'll never know what we missed in this timeline, the Tom Lehrer of gangstah rap was never born in our universe.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#64

Post by fwungy »

andrewl wrote: post #22
kkwteh wrote: post #2

I never knew how to square this with stories about Feynman’s sexual predation. Were these two distinct phases of his life?

It’s been easily 15 years since I read Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman by by James Gleick, and probably 25 or so since I read Feynman’s own books of stories about himself. I remember lots of stories about flirtation, and very probably promiscuity , but I don’t recall sexual predation . That’s not to say it didn’t happen. I haven’t read everything there is about Feynman’s life, and I don’t remember all…

He used to go to strip clubs with his sketch pad and draw the strippers. It was an effective ice breaker and relationships with the strippers outside the club are inferred.

Feynman was a successful, charismatic man with insatiable curiosities about many things. He may have caused women to do things they later regretted, but it's unlikely he forced anyone against their will.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#65

Post by lovecg »

caycep wrote: post #55
KMag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, the allegations were during his second marriage. This letter was to his first wife. If the love of my life were to be cut down in the prime of her life, I imagine I'd be emotionally scarred for life. Sure, I'd make every effort to move on, but I just can't imagine the amount of emotional scar tissue that would remain permanently.

The second wife was the one that reported him to the FBI for being "a communist" or something like that?

Yeah allegedly because Feynman took Oppenheimer’s side while his wife didn’t in the whole debacle.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#66

Post by growingkittens »

Losing his first wife was a tragedy that seems to have led Feynman down a dark personal path. Everybody likes the funny second wife divorce story - "because he did calculus all the time!"

His second wife testified in court that he flew into a rage and choked her if she unwittingly interrupted his calculus. [1] She was granted a divorce due to his "extreme cruelty."

[1] p. 64-65 of FBI file - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/fbi...

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#67

Post by slowhadoken »

jjulius wrote: post #53
Dig1t wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read a lot about Feynman and have never read that. Would love to see a source.

Edit: Note that I have no opinion here, just answering someone's request for a source. A cursory Google reveals... > Neither were Feynman's escapades limited to bars; more than one of his biographies have documented affairs with two married women, at least one of which caused him considerable problems.[0] Charlie Munger seems to be a source for claims that he would sleep with the wives of his undergrad students[2]. A…

We alway cut great minds a lot of slack. I have a mental experiment for this: imagine a man beats his wife. Terrible right? Now imagine the same man cures cancer. Well suddenly everyone is curious about the complexities of his marriage. That’s morality for most people.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#68

Post by jimbob45 »

the_af wrote: post #6
happytoexplain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good summary example of something I find distinctly dangerous about the way people think of figures they don't personally know (i.e. how people on the social web treat public figures, or even just any stranger they see on the web). We see snapshots and assemble a person in our head. We can barely do that with any degree of fidelity regarding people we personally know , much less public figures. People do go…

In addition to your comment, what I find mind-boggling is how easily people swing between the two extremes of opinion: it seems every public figure must either be adored and admired, or reviled and ostracized. People (myself included, I don't exclude myself from being human!) do not want to contemplate public figures as complex individuals with dark and bright aspects. It's always all or nothing. So Woody Allen went…

Same with Asimov.

What did Asimov ever do?

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#69

Post by fwungy »

poszlem wrote: post #35
kkwteh wrote: post #2

I never knew how to square this with stories about Feynman’s sexual predation. Were these two distinct phases of his life?

It's really disappointing to see such a blatant attempt to drag someone's name through the mud. I have seen over and over again people derive pleasure from undermining respected figures, perhaps in a bid to appear more sophisticated or informed. Shame on you.

It's almost always straight white males slated for personal destruction.

The funniest was probably Marilyn Manson. These women really didn't know that he was a disgusting pervert just from seeing him, then dated him for years, complaining a decade later? Manson is an awful person and makes no attempts to hide it. No one could say to the accusers, "you really had no idea this guy was a horrible person from second one?"

If Manson can be attacked and canceled any man can be.

Re: Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017)

#70

Post by mock-possum »

wincy wrote: post #39
sonicanatidae wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. I believe school children should get meals, for free in the richest country in the world. Crazy idea. They don't agree, but are somehow still good people.. lol

Right, because my wife home schools and has chosen to forgo a professional career to care for our disabled daughter, depriving us of a substantial income, and I don’t think the tax dollars I do pay should subsidize the public schools we can’t even use due to our child’s medical needs? Mind you, I live in an area with middle class incomes, so the families can definitely afford the school lunches. Am I a bad person?

You’re certainly an uncaring person. You already struggle to care for your own child, and now you take that bitterness out on everyone else. Why should other parents not be provided free public school, regulated by the government, where they can send their children during the day while they work to support their family? How heartless to deny others that.

Public education is free for everyone. We all pay for it because it is in our best interest collectively. What makes you think you deserve access to other public programs and assistance, given that you’re not willing to extend others the same courtesy?

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