Live data from Hacker News

Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

cdn2.psychologytoday.com

61–70 of 124 posts

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. I feel that if you've never heard of a meta-stud…

Are the personal attacks necessary? Don’t use yourself as a reference point for everyone else’s experience, that’s a very privileged thing to do.

> Are the personal attacks necessary? Don’t use yourself as a reference point for everyone else’s experience, that’s a very privileged thing to do.

Where did I use myself as a reference point? I'm not talking about my lived experience, so there's no need to bring that into the discussion.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#62
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the real Foundation books, which the TV series barely resembles, this was part of the galactic empire's decline. With so many studies done, over tens of thousands of years, on millions of planets, each with hundreds of millions of people, there was an immense load of prior work. And meta-analysis was where all research ended up. Just read a bunch of papers, summarize them, and write a new paper. Scientific researc…

Without disputing that Asimov might have brought up such a concept somewhere in the series, it certainly is not a prime factor mentioned in the first novel. "Good. Add to this the known probability of Imperial assassination, viceregal revolt, the contemporary recurrence of periods of economic depression, the declining rate of planetary explorations, the..." [...] Gaal said, "As Trantor becomes more specialized, it be…

He's refering to the episode near the beginning with Lord Dorwin.

"Then why rely on him? Why not go to Arcturus and study the remains for yourself?"

Lord Dorwin raised his eyebrows and took a pinch of snuff hurriedly. "Why, whatevah foah, my deah fellow?"

"To get the information firsthand, of course."

"But wheah's the necessity? It seems an uncommonly woundabout and hopelessly wigmawolish method of getting anywheahs. Look heah, now, I've got the wuhks of all the old mastahs - the gweat ahchaeologists of the past. I wigh them against each othah - balance the disagweements - analyze the conflicting statements - decide which is pwobably cowwect - and come to a conclusion. That is the scientific method. At least" - patronizingly -"as I see it. How insuffewably cwude it would be to go to Ahctuwus, oah to Sol, foah instance, and blundah about, when the old mastahs have covahed the gwound so much moah effectually than we could possibly hope to do."

[...]

As they left the room, Hardin said suddenly, "Milord, may I ask a question?"

[...]

"No. It's this: Last year we received news here in Terminus about the meltdown of a power plant on Planet V of Gamma Andromeda. We got the barest outline of the accident - no details at all. I wonder if you could tell me exactly what happened."

Pirenne's mouth twisted. "I wonder you annoy his lordship with questions on totally irrelevant subjects."

"Not at all, Doctah Piwenne," interceded the chancellor. "It is quite all wight. Theah isn't much to say concuhning it in any case. The powah plant did undergo meltdown and it was quite a catastwophe, y'know. I believe wadiatsen damage. Weally, the govuhnment is sewiously considewing placing seveah westwictions upon the indiscwiminate use of nucleah powah - though that is not a thing for genewal publication, y'know."

"I understand," said Hardin. "But what was wrong with the plant?"

"Well, weally," replied Lord Dorwin indifferently, "who knows? It had bwoken down some yeahs pweviously and it is thought that the weplacements and wepaiah wuhk wuh most infewiah. It is so difficult these days to find men who weally undahstand the moah technical details of ouah powah systems." And he took a sorrowful pinch of snuff.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#63
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

The book wasn't a compilation of independent research papers. It was produced out of a compilation of interviews done to better understand millionaires. Support was defined by the wealthy parent providing financial support, whether through a stipend, gifts, or whatever. It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics.

But presumably it is also possible that some children were smart and successful, so therefore the parents didn't feel the need to provide so much support.

Whereas others were perhaps struggling with everything so the parents gave much more support.

Everyday example: the parents of disabled people dedicate almost everything they've got to help their children, and often end up poor and with a poor quality of life themselves as a result.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#64
post #11

How are children in car-centric societies supposed to be independent when they need adults to drive them to places?

I had plenty of access to play without driving anywhere. I spent hours and hours playing on my driveway and in my yard with minimal supervision.

Playing in your yard isn't really "minimal supervision". You probably just didn't know how often your parents checked on you. And you would have known that your parent could just look outside and see you.

As a 8 or 9-year-old, could you go to a friends house, to the store, or to school without parental supervision?

Did you have safe bike lanes to do this? Was there safe public transportation? Sidewalks on busier streets? Safe crosswalks where the cars are supposed to stop by law - and are those laws enforced heavily to keep you safe? Could you play independently outside of your yard?

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#65
post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

https://archive.org/details/1996-the-millionaire-next-door

Here you go.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had plenty of access to play without driving anywhere. I spent hours and hours playing on my driveway and in my yard with minimal supervision.

Playing in your yard isn't really "minimal supervision". You probably just didn't know how often your parents checked on you. And you would have known that your parent could just look outside and see you. As a 8 or 9-year-old, could you go to a friends house, to the store, or to school without parental supervision? Did you have safe bike lanes to do this? Was there safe public transportation? Sidewalks on busier stre…

I live in the USA and we picked our neighborhood specifically because of these things.

My kid has been going to her friend’s houses by herself since she was 5. She goes down the block (sometimes a couple of blocks! Friends of friends) to her friend’s houses. I feel like we changed the culture in the neighborhood. Kids come out and go to our house and other houses all the time. It’s a good, safe neighborhood.

Of course it just takes a few people to screw this up. Some busybody lady who felt the need to tell us she was a foster mom (okay? Maybe trying to signal what a moral person and upstanding person she was?) called CPS on us saying we were “neglecting” our child which meant a visit to verify we were not abandoning our child on the street. She later lost her job and had to move away, let me tell you I was very sad to hear it. To avoid such spurious accusations, we got our daughter an Apple Watch with cellular service, which we generally use to call her when it gets dark out.

She’s eight now, and went to Walmart by herself earlier this year several times on her bike to buy a few things. I was very proud of her!

This is extremely important to us that she be able to have this autonomy. It’s definitely not the default, though. There are a half dozen or more kids that regularly dip in and out of our house. It’s sad that some parents absolutely don’t allow their children out of their sight. There are kids just next door my daughter basically never sees because they aren’t allowed to leave their houses, despite being the same age as my kid.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#67
When I was little (20 years ago), I left the house in the morning and came back in the evening. My parents didn't really care what I did. It was the same for all the children in our small village.

We played in the forest, created tree homes, tunnels and much more. It was an incredible time which I'm certain helped me a lot in my development.

Granted, I was growing up on a farm in Germany. There wasn't much traffic or other "dangers".

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#68
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

The book wasn't a compilation of independent research papers. It was produced out of a compilation of interviews done to better understand millionaires. Support was defined by the wealthy parent providing financial support, whether through a stipend, gifts, or whatever. It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics.

> It turned out that, despite the best of intentions, such support almost inevitably wound up with destructive emotional dynamics

See the list of "self made" billionaires who started with a small loan of a couple 100 mil from their parents for examples.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's on a different topic. ie. That if people speak up for themselves, or they want to address unfairness or inequality in their society, it's because their parents hugged them when they cried as babies, instead of ignoring them, or whatever you're supposed to do to "toughen them up" (ie. turn them into terrified adults, washed up in middle age, who see any new youth movement as a life-threatening trend that must be…

> it's because their parents hugged them when they cried as babies, instead of ignoring them, or whatever you're supposed to do to "toughen them up" Where have I heard that before.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harsh-nazi-parent... > In "The German Mother and Her First Child", Haarer wrote, “It is best if the child is in his own room, where he can be left alone.” If the child starts to cry, it is best t…

the worst advice

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#70
post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

Epigenetics suggests that unnecessary stressors in the current generation reduce biological fitness, which competes with struggle for the sake of struggle when its not necessary hope someone finds the happy medium of allowing growth without unnecessary stress

As opposed to necessary stressors in previous generations (hot and cold wars)? If not all stressors are bad, which ones are good?
Post reply on HN