What SWE job hunting is like right now • Hacker News Board

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#61

Post by CapricornNoble » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

> I would have loved to hire them at $120-140k, but for $175k I can easily find people with 5x more years of experience. Where are you easily finding someone with 20 years experience for 175k?

Recently-retired military veterans with STEM educations, especially if they were in a communications/signal/intel field. They won't have 20 years of direct SWE experience hacking on codebases, but they have tons of practical real-world knowledge and probably know their way around Python or JS as well as any bootcamp graduate.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#62

Post by and0 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:55 PM UTC

hipadev23 wrote: post #27

Your problem is using recruiters. There’s a shitload of remote jobs available. Just look at HN Who’s Hiring. Also drop the CI/tests attitude. Many modern startups don’t bother with security-theater either.

I sent out plenty of resumes with nice cover letters to jobs I felt overqualified for over the 4 months I was just looking, and had maybe one response.. from a recruiter.

But I worked with a recruiter for a few of those months and they got me to a few final rounds. I think having a proper recruiter, who knows the hiring manager, is pretty powerful. Them shaving whatever % of the top is lame but it's better than being unemployed.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#63

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

mathgeek wrote: post #24

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

> It’s a tough pill to swallow but it is possible to get offers, but they might not be at the salary levels from 2-3 years ago. This goes both ways. People teams will prefer to pay less than they have before, and engineers should usually ask for more than they currently make. Anecdotally as a hiring manager, I would always encourage folks to have savings to cover the time it takes to avoid settling for lower salaries…

This isn’t mathematically logical. Every month that you are out of a job, you need to make 8% more once you are hired to make up the difference in loss pay.

While I wouldn’t have taken just any bullshit low paying full time job after getting Amazoned (full time in the cloud consulting division), I was more than willing to take a contract job and just to keep interviewing while I’m working - especially now that jobs and interviews are remote.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#64

Post by lokar » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:58 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #56

lokar wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These discussions are always the same, two sides of a bi-modal distribution talking past each other. There is not just one “tech” industry that hire software engineers.

Right, and the point of this whole thread is that one end of that bimodal distribution just got a lot smaller than it was 3 years ago, while the other end sits where it always has. There are a lot of people who the FAANG end of the spectrum doesn't have room for anymore who are disappointed to find themselves back on the more sustainable modality.

I agree a lot of people got pulled over into the right hand side during the weird boom and now things are adjusting. But neither side is more "sustainable" than the other (just some individuals expectations). The work is different, the skills are different, the expectations are different. FAANG are not wrong to pay what they pay.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#65

Post by ohsnappitysnap » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #55

I’m going to say something that at first is going to sound really insulting. But please hear me out. If you’re just another enterprise CRUD developer like most of the 2.7 million developers in the US, there are literally thousands who can do the job good enough. When I worked and lived in Atlanta pre-Covid, I could throw my resume in the air and reach out to local recruiters I had worked with for years and have multi…

[flagged]

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#66

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

> I would have loved to hire them at $120-140k, but for $175k I can easily find people with 5x more years of experience. Where are you easily finding someone with 20 years experience for 175k?

Outside of the bubble, that’s what most ICs are making if not less working “enterprise Dev” in most metro areas.

“20 years of experience” is meaningless. The difference in 7-8 years and 20 is meaningless. This is coming from someone who has 25+ years

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#67

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #26

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

120k is bottom of the barrel wages.

Even on the enterprise dev side, I would expect at least $150K after 5-7 years for your standard full stack dev

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#68

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

garlandkey wrote: post #23

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

You have no idea what enterprise dev salaries are

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#69

Post by CoastalCoder » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #32

I have been interviewing. Everyone is confused right now. Hiring companies are confused. Recruits are confused. My opinion is we are at a severe dislocation period. I have noticed massive changes in the emerging skills, tools and platforms. Pretty much no code, low code and AI. Everything else looks useless or outdated. Meanwhile, tons of startups and big tech companies are dying and laying off. The skills those peop…

I think that's an excellent analysis. There's another issue I'm not seeing anyone talk about:

I'm currently unemployed. But given my life circumstances, I need to make about $170k/year to avoid long-term money problems.

I've seen a few jobs in the $140k-$150k range that I'm pretty sure are mine for the asking. But I know that once the market improves, I'd need to move on to other companies for better pay.

I'm avoiding applying for those jobs because it feels slimy: I'd have to deceive the employer about my intentions to stay.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#70

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

garlandkey wrote: post #30

cj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t argue with your viewpoint. All I can say is there are a lot of people with 10-15 yrs experience who will happily accept $140-150k with 10+ yrs experience in the US remote market (more specifically full stack node/react)

I will change my opinion if you can provide evidence beyond anecdotes. Honestly, it helpful information if it's backed up my facts.

Go to salary.com and look for software engineering salaries in most major cities.

You don’t even have to do that. Go to levels.fyi and look at the compensation for places like Delta, Walmart or one of the insurance companies