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How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

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Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#61

Post by AlbertCory »

gruez wrote: post #3
eganist wrote: post #2

Pharma strikes me as one of the industries that would benefit heavily from a few congressionally chartered nonprofits being booted up. Same employee comp (with cash substitutes for stock), same general structure, same incentives, but with a mandate to recycle profits back into new drug development rather than paying out to shareholders through buybacks, dividends, etc, all audited by a dedicated regulatory body to en…

Pharmaceuticals is a pretty capital intensive industry. Who's providing the capital? The government? Moreover, who's providing oversight? Congress? Given how dysfunctional the government is right now, and the tendency of government programs to turn into jobs/pork barrel programs (eg. F35), I'm skeptical that it's going to work out better.

As usual, the biggest factor is ignored:

        Risk
Who takes the risk of exploring a drug candidate that literally no one can predict will succeed or fail?

Let's imagine the Secretary of Drug Development testifying before Congress on why so many of his drugs didn't work. His best strategy is to only pursue safe bets.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#62

Post by 99_00 »

mullen wrote: post #34
99_00 wrote: post #23

It was amazing to see skepticism and criticism of big pharma become forbid during COVID with many citizens happily shaming, ostracizing, and censoring others. And then to see it suddenly be allowed again. Extremely fascinating.

This article is from 2019 and second, I don't think anyone questions the validity of the results of Big Pharma, just the price, transparency and lack of willingness to allow the US Federal government to collectively price bargain.

So much better.

It's from a time when Democrats were casting doubt on the "Trump Vaccine" to advance their political agenda, only to do an about face once Biden was President.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmZnmbGPzR0

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#63

Post by slaw »

serial_dev wrote: post #45
99_00 wrote: post #23

It was amazing to see skepticism and criticism of big pharma become forbid during COVID with many citizens happily shaming, ostracizing, and censoring others. And then to see it suddenly be allowed again. Extremely fascinating.

I was shocked how quickly "COVID went away" in German news and the public discourse when the war in Ukraine started.

Suddenly it was ok for very old people to die. But lookdows lasted only 2 weeks anyway, so it was not an issue.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#64

Post by markus92 »

gambiting wrote: post #40
rqtwteye wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be if the medical industry in the US were run like normal businesses with transparent and consistent pricing. Right now nobody can predict how much something cost because insurances, hospitals, drug companies and a lot of middlemen play all kinds of games. I think we should mandate that all prices are open so people know what's actually going on. Hospitals should also charge the same price for the…

>>A good start would be if the medical industry in the US were run like normal businesses with transparent and consistent pricing. People keep saying this, but I don't see how that helps in the slightest if you have had an accident and need help now . Or for non-urgent care - something is wrong, you don't know what, you go to two doctors, one recommends a set of tests for $5000, the other a different set for $10,000,…

Absolutely true for urgent care, but most care isn't urgent. If you need a new hip or cataract surgery, that's very much plannable and if you could save a few thousand by going to a different hospital, definitely something to consider.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#65

Post by nickpp »

rcbdev wrote: post #57
WalterBright wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I.e. you want the government to run industry. That never works well. > all audited by a dedicated regulatory body to ensure that comp and waste don't go into excess Since when has that ever worked for government run operations? > The hope would be that the industry doesn't actually profit off of human suffering I.e. industry works to alleviate suffering by providing the things that suffering people want. Their motiva…

Yeah - Europe is basically hell if you have health problems and in the US you get great, affordable and immediate treatment... Having lived and had health issues in both, I can 100% guarantee that health care in Western Europe is much better than in the US for the average citizen. This is a fact.

I live in Europe. Just not in the nice, posh Western side that benefitted from all those cheap but well trained doctors and nurses who emigrated after their country got accepted in the EU.

Here in the East we thank God for private health care since the socialized state-run one IS basically hell as it kills people routinely.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#66

Post by WalterBright »

nickpp wrote: post #65
rcbdev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - Europe is basically hell if you have health problems and in the US you get great, affordable and immediate treatment... Having lived and had health issues in both, I can 100% guarantee that health care in Western Europe is much better than in the US for the average citizen. This is a fact.

I live in Europe. Just not in the nice, posh Western side that benefitted from all those cheap but well trained doctors and nurses who emigrated after their country got accepted in the EU. Here in the East we thank God for private health care since the socialized state-run one IS basically hell as it kills people routinely.

There was a thread about Chernobyl a while back on reddit, and many survivors were commented on it (a fascinating thread). One remarked that while root canals were free, you had to pay for the anesthetic. One also had to pay bribes to the hospital staff to get things done.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#67

Post by nickpp »

WalterBright wrote: post #66
nickpp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Europe. Just not in the nice, posh Western side that benefitted from all those cheap but well trained doctors and nurses who emigrated after their country got accepted in the EU. Here in the East we thank God for private health care since the socialized state-run one IS basically hell as it kills people routinely.

There was a thread about Chernobyl a while back on reddit, and many survivors were commented on it (a fascinating thread). One remarked that while root canals were free, you had to pay for the anesthetic. One also had to pay bribes to the hospital staff to get things done.

> had to pay bribes to the hospital staff to get things done

This is still common. Patients are routinely ignored (and if elderly often abused) unless throwing bribes around. Countless cases of deceased friends and relatives in the media.

Absolutely no one in the Eastern block would dream to recommend state-run healthcare. It’s a deeply corrupted mafia organization.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#68

Post by infamouscow »

AlbertCory wrote: post #49
infamouscow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislative branch of government passes laws, not the executive. Why would Biden being in office change anything unless he signed an executive order specifically about this?

> unless he signed an executive order specifically about this? .. and we all know he would never sign an order that he knew was unconstitutional /s

If a president intends to start crossing out parts of the constitution like a todo list of line items as you're asserting, it makes a lot more sense to come out and actually say that in the executive orders to avoid any uncertainty or ambiguity.

It also completely ignores how the last several presidents signed executive orders later ruled by the courts to be partially unconstitutional.

The most charitable interpretation is: through a wildly convoluted method involving underwater jumping-jacks and singing Sinatra lyrics during a half moon on even calendar days, the president's EO are going to stealthily erode the constitution and the checks and balances will somehow fail even though it's counterfactual to reality.

Re: How Big Pharma reaps profits while hurting everyday Americans (2019)

#69

Post by clankyclanker »

nine_k wrote: post #25
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

> A vial of NovoLog, one type of insulin, costs15 anywhere from $14 to $300 in the United States but only $48 in Singapore, $14 in India, $6 in Austria, and $0 in Italy. I think a reasonable solution without having to dictate details is to require pharmaceutical companies give the US most favored nation status - that is they must provide the US the same price as the country where it is sold for the cheapest. Perhaps…

I think that it only "costs" $0 in Italy because the actual cost is paid by some subsidy or insurance system. Also, insulin is a prescription medicine, so even in the absence of such confounding factors its price is not entirely market-driven; we have a nebulous understanding what the equilibrium price would be on a free market.

> we have a nebulous understanding what the equilibrium price would be on a free market.

I can’t imagine a free market existing in the US without PS5-style-resellers immediately buying out the entire supply and jacking up the price for drugs people need to live. Not like that’s significantly different than what we have now, it’d just be a worse version.

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