Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that would have the opposite problem, that purchases made with stolen cards were 100% unrecoverable. While im sure we can improve things, the fact that the current system favors individual people, rather than businesses, is intentional, not an accident.
How are people using stolen cards? Do your banks not have 2 factor enabled? Using the card not present should require a second factor, Visa Secure type of thing and in person should require your pin for non-frivolous amounts.
Braid is dead, long live Braid
61–70 of 99 posts
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#62> Every dollar a startup can raise is a gift. For a time I lost sight of this, and I won’t make that mistake again. This seems like too general of advice. If you are profitable without raising, that in itself is a gift. Why take on debt if you don't need to? This might apply to fast-growth ventures that need to outpace competition to have a chance at existing, but not every company is structured like this or is in a…
That strategy works fine till hard times come. Look up Beyond The Summit sometime. Sad story how it ended. Raising money insulates against death by starvation of funds. Of course, the game becomes different; you need to keep growing. But those are the two alternatives, and of the two, sustained growth over 8 years seems like a better general strategy.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#63It's like Venmo meets a corporate card program.
One person is the admin of the collective or company bank account, and repays people as needed using Venmo.
If all of that has to be free - no transaction fees, etc - then there is no business there to build. I wonder if revenue wasn’t also a problem for this startup.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#64> Every dollar a startup can raise is a gift. For a time I lost sight of this, and I won’t make that mistake again. This seems like too general of advice. If you are profitable without raising, that in itself is a gift. Why take on debt if you don't need to? This might apply to fast-growth ventures that need to outpace competition to have a chance at existing, but not every company is structured like this or is in a…
I’ve been a founder, so I know that raising money is all about telling a story about the future, and the time to raise is when your graph supports that story, or before you have a graph. If a week later, everything is different, well, that’s start-ups for you. But I think it’s good to be able to take a step back from this and recognize how bizarre it is, and that a business doesn’t have to be structured this way.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#65> Our product was not in any sort of legal gray area (e.g. crypto) and fit within the bounds of existing law. From the day we started until the day we shut down, we’d spend millions of dollars to build a best-in-class compliance program to sit alongside our offering. I worked in AML for a short time, and this: > There were myriad buckets of n users who loved having a financial account designed just for them. A few ex…
To address your points:
1. The ownership of funds is mapped pro-rata to every user's contribution. If three people contribute $10, $10 and $20 dollars, and then the pool gets spent down to $10 total, the technical per-dollar ownership is $2.50, $2.50, $5. It was critical to have a down-to-the-cent mapping of individual ownership of every dollar in our system at all times. While funds availability is dictated by Federal Law (Reg CC), funds ownership was something we were allowed to establish in our own Terms of Service. It's still live and available to read here (Section 4): https://braid.co/legal/tos if you'd like. Funds ownership was not related to spending permissions, which could be decided by the pool admin (for example, maybe you want all users to be able to spend all available funds, that's up to you).
2. Every individual who signed up for Braid went through our KYC/CIP process. We had a very robust (and expensive) waterfall to verify every indiviual, and screened the entire customer base every time the OFAC list was updated. I was never on board with concept of "treat the group as a single entity" for exactly this reason. For consumers, a group is not a business or an entity, it is a group of individuals and should be treated as such. There are always false negatives and these systems aren't perfect, but if you're on the OFAC list you wouldn't be able to simply sign up for Braid and slosh money around. That's illegal.
3. We built from-scratch internal anti-money-laundering software that was designed to catch exactly the kind of money laundering that could only happen in a pooled account structure, in addition to all the standard money laundering tactics (circular transfers, flow-through, structuring, transaction frequency, and more)
4. From my perspective, a product like this makes sense within the existing regulatory environment IFF the startup (us) was willing to do the hard work to figure it out. We absolutely were and had the time and money to get it right. But yes, it was very complex and at times infuriating.
5. As noted in the piece, the bank off-boarded every fintech they had -- debit cards for college kids, small business banking apps, neobanks for different consumer groups. I know this because we had a phone chain/support group by the end of it. It wasn't about our business model, it was about getting out of fintech sponsorship entirely.
6. We've gone through detailed compliance reviews with multiple banks, and worked with a handful of well-known legal experts (at least that's how they billed). Especially by the end, we had a good sense of the regulatory constraints and what the regulators care about these days. I've met with the OCC personally a couple times and gotten their perspective as well. FINRA regulates investment products, not deposit accounts.
In sum, while there is no such thing "move fast, break things" in fintech, the idea that we shouldn't fight for what consumers want and do the hard regulatory work to make it happen is too depressing for me. I have to believe new products are possible, and still do.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#66I wanna know who the critical third party was, and also why the regulators said "Yeah but nah"
Did the regulators say no to Braid specifically? Felt more like the regulators were putting pressure on the sponsor bank to get out of risky businesses in general.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#67> Our product was not in any sort of legal gray area (e.g. crypto) and fit within the bounds of existing law. From the day we started until the day we shut down, we’d spend millions of dollars to build a best-in-class compliance program to sit alongside our offering. I worked in AML for a short time, and this: > There were myriad buckets of n users who loved having a financial account designed just for them. A few ex…
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not knocking it for Dutch people, but the internet needs a trustworthy global payments system that works for more than the 20 million in .nl. It also sucks that you have to provide strong identity to the payer or payee, sending or receiving payments should not require disclosing identity. That’s a bug, not a feature.
Your need to buy illegal drugs and launder money anonymously and perpetrate fraudulent rug pulls and shill get-rich-quick pyramid schemes should not trump the needs of most other people who simply require a fast, reliable way to make legal secure business transactions without fees and middlemen. Anyway, the Netherlands and rest of the world already has a fully functioning illegal drug trading and money laundering net…
Maybe they just don't want all of their personal information to be stored in yet another database waiting to be leaked.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#69I learned this through osmosis at one financial-adjacent company I worked for. Every senior technical manager was extremely hostile to any third-party integration. I personally saw several product driven initiatives completely dropped because it would require even the slightest lock-in.
When I see posts on HN or Reddit where the startup mentions a tech-stack built entirely on third-party services, I cringe. That is one of my main frustrations with the current AI wave - where most businesses are only viable with a quality of AI that is available only through third-parties. I believe in 3-5 years we'll be reading a lot of blog posts just like this one telling the same story about how their AI startup was forced to fold due to some locked-in provider changing policies.
Re: Braid is dead, long live Braid
#70> Our product was not in any sort of legal gray area (e.g. crypto) and fit within the bounds of existing law. From the day we started until the day we shut down, we’d spend millions of dollars to build a best-in-class compliance program to sit alongside our offering. I worked in AML for a short time, and this: > There were myriad buckets of n users who loved having a financial account designed just for them. A few ex…
Hey there - I'm the author of the essay, happy to weigh in. First, your initial reaction makes sense, and we spent many years (and as noted in the piece, millions of dollars) creating a structure that stayed within the bounds of every reg. That's why we didn't have many competitors. To address your points: 1. The ownership of funds is mapped pro-rata to every user's contribution. If three people contribute $10, $10 a…
Was the business model mainly going to be fee-based?