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Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

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Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#61

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

> "He screamed at people for using 'open source'..."

RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi.

RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the overwhelming proprietary software industry that existed back in the '80s. A lesser person would have given up long ago.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#62

Post by opan »

0atman wrote: post #54
dyingkneepad wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's me every time I try reading r/vegan comments, lol. Those people think they are helping our cause, but they're actually moving it backwards.

Yeah! I've seen a lot of re-branding to "plant-based", same meaning, less baggage.

I've seen this have a similar issue to "open source" where people misuse it even if the terms were supposed to mean something similar. e.g. food with plant-based written on it containing non-vegan ingredients (sorta like people calling public/visible source "open source" when it's very much proprietary)

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#63

Post by johannes1234321 »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

In that context: My most "fun" encounter was at a demonstration by farmers against patented seeds in Munich, Germany:

RMS spent half a sentence on crops and seeds before transitioning to emphasize that GNU/Linux isnkey and it's important to call it GNU. Most of the audience didn't know whonthat was and what he was talking about, while the interpreter tried to give a tiny bit of context in his translation.

We need fundamentalists who stick to their opinion. And I agree to many of RMS's points, but he is not a good poster head ...

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#64

Post by eYrKEC2 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #61
0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

> " He screamed at people for using 'open source'... " RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi. RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the ove…

Do you think the CEO of Coca-Cola actually screams at waiters when they say, "we don't have Coke, will Pepsi be ok?"

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#65

Post by shawnhermans »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #53
throwfoss wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well someone should do it though. He's surely an ambivalent person. But the point "Open Source" vs. "Free Software" stands. Right now working at a company that has been violating the GPL (and somewhat celebrating themselves as Open Source contributors) makes me truly understand the difference. "Open Source" means just taking but "Free Software" also - at the very least - complying with licenses. > To those who say we…

he hasn't done anything for GNU in over a decade, this is just preaching to the choir

I stopped commenting on HackerNews years ago because of that same phenomenon. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with RMS. It isn't an excuse to act like a total asshole all the time.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#66

Post by notesinthefield »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

I am always surprised anyone invites RMS to speak given he is both an unabashed fanatic of FOSS and a phenomenally bad communicator.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#67

Post by globular-toast »

0atman wrote: post #35

I went to a small talk rms gave in London in around 2009. The talk was unmemorable (my fault, likely, not his) but the Q&A afterwards was remarkable: He screamed at people for using 'open source' instead of 'free software' in their questions, raved about the Amazon "Swindle" like a 12-year-old, and talked over and down to everyone. He was often accurate in the core of what he was trying to say, but his attitude was u…

He is a hero, but he's also "weird". That means, straight off the bat, at least 50% of the population won't like him. It's a shame, but that's just the way it is. You can wish all you want that Stallman were more like Richard Feynman, but he's not. And yet this one weird man is the only one out of all of us standing up and talking about this stuff.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#68

Post by yifanl »

eYrKEC2 wrote: post #64
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " He screamed at people for using 'open source'... " RMS has been literally all about Free Software from day one. The term "open source" originated as a competing philosophy from Bruce Perens. It's like going to the CEO of Coca-cola and asking about Pepsi. RMS was also a fringy fanatic from day one. It took a lot of willpower and vision to advocate for Free Software, a movement that that flew in the face of the ove…

Do you think the CEO of Coca-Cola actually screams at waiters when they say, "we don't have Coke, will Pepsi be ok?"

The founder of Coca-Cola might. But either way, pointing out the flaws of a loose analogy adds nothing to the conversation.

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#69

Post by arp242 »

0atman wrote: post #40
dayvid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the infamous article that tried to cancel Stallman and agreed with most of it. She was wrong at the end when she tried to destroy his legacy and image. Stallman has done a lot, but he's doing more harm than good nowadays. It's mature to know when to step down and give the next generation space to grow.

I read just today that there's no such thing as 'cancel culture', what it is, is 'consequence culture': The observation that it's becoming less accepted that we must protect the rich/famous/powerful just because they're rich/famous/powerful.

I like that phrasing, but that doesn't mean that the consequences in "consequence culture" are sometimes hugely outsized for what the transgression is (or that there can't be a disagreement about various aspects).

Re: Richard Stallman Talks Red Hat, AI and Ethical Software Licenses at GNU Birthday

#70

Post by peanutcrisis »

0atman wrote: post #40
dayvid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the infamous article that tried to cancel Stallman and agreed with most of it. She was wrong at the end when she tried to destroy his legacy and image. Stallman has done a lot, but he's doing more harm than good nowadays. It's mature to know when to step down and give the next generation space to grow.

I read just today that there's no such thing as 'cancel culture', what it is, is 'consequence culture': The observation that it's becoming less accepted that we must protect the rich/famous/powerful just because they're rich/famous/powerful.

You should check out this interview with FIRE's president [0], and his upcoming book [1]. You can also check out Jerry Coyne's blog [2], which acts as a repository for a lot of the bad behaviour coming from the Critical Social Justice (CSJ) types.

The notion of "consequence culture" encompasses "cancel culture". It shouldn't be a surprise that bad faith actors exist, and netizens can be manipulated. To dismiss "cancel culture" is to dismiss the notion that bad faith actors exist. Of this set of bad faith actors, I think the CSJ types are by far the worst. They exploit the good reputation of liberal social justice (i.e. the original gay, female, black rights movement), and through motte and bailey, manipulate people into their version of social justice (CSJ), which is unsubstantiated, comically simplistic, discriminatory, and divisive. By masquerading themselves as purveyors of issues we care about, their bad behaviour becomes harder to call out as well, since they can misrepresent their critics as being against the issues we care about, and weaponize their compassion to mob their critics. Conflating "consequence culture" with "cancel culture" is just one of the many ways they're achieving that.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buarAx_u2qg

[1] https://www.amazon.sg/Canceling-American-Mind-Undermines-Thr...

[2] https://whyevolutionistrue.com/category/cancel-culture/

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