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Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

fortune.com

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Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#61

Post by Fervicus »

b112 wrote: post #28
rj45jackattack wrote: post #10

I'm sure current interest rates have nothing to do with it :/

That's a good point. Likely, rates have mostly peaked. There will potentially be downward pressure soon. On top of that, many cars are hard to get. Low production, backlogged demand. This means fewer deals on finance and lease rates. I remember 0% lease and finance rates, 15 years ago when the interest rate was this high, because car companies wanted to move product. But now they have no need, not with them unable to…

> rates have mostly peaked

What is this based on? I am not so sure if I believe that. Canada's inflation rate jumped to 4% last month (although a lot of that was apparently due to an increase in gasoline prices).

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#62

Post by toomuchtodo »

agumonkey wrote: post #36
cs702 wrote: post #5

Correction: ...as demand for non-Tesla EVs plunges. Demand for Tesla EVs is... booming. Tesla sold 83% more cars in the most recent quarter than in the same quarter a year ago.[a] [a] https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/...

What causes Tesla's demand to be so high ? price only ? or did VW EV effort failed ? I didn't read about it but it, but last year or so, IDn cars prototypes were reviewed favorably.

Because the brand is built around being sexy, and buying a car is an emotional purchase.

https://www.thedrive.com/supercars/4626/scientists-tell-us-w...

https://www.citnow.com/us/blog-us/building-emotional-connect...

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#63

Post by LeifCarrotson »

siffland wrote: post #44

Working in Tech, I love a lot about electric cars. I just have a few issues I cannot seem to overcome (this is a personal ME thing about EV's and some new gas vehicles, your mileage may vary....pun intended). All new cars spy on you (well most do), but EV's are completely software driven and seem to be more intrusive. I want a car I can connect to the internet when I want to for updates and that is it. I also want an…

> So you are telling me they could of been build with smaller batteries and save money and the environment, but they were not...

If you charge and discharge a lithium ion cell from 4.2V to 2.75V, you might get 250 full cycles. If you stop charging at 4V and call that 100%, and stop discharging at 3.2V, you might get 2000 cycles before capacity is reduced.

Phone and laptop manufacturers prefer to burn the battery out in 2 years, car manufacturers want to sell bigger packs and are afraid consumers will rebel if a BEV needs a replacement battery at 100k miles.

Neither, for reasons unclear to me, allow the owner to make that decision.

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#64

Post by petee »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #17
petee wrote: post #2

Is there really any surprise no one wants to pay $45000 for a compact car? What is the profit margin on EVs that its cheaper to not sell cars versus making them affordable and within reach of more customers? Edit: actually I can't tell if thats their cheapest car, VWs website sucks on mobile so I gave up. You'd think it'd be easy to just show the prices

the decline is mostly because a government subsidy ended

Ah, so I guess the follow up question is did VW raise their prices to take advantage of the subsidy, basically just pocketing what was supposed to make a fairly-priced car more accessible? I guess that would be tough to get a clear answer without knowing the real cost of a car, though...

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#65

Post by wolverine876 »

The corporate news is the same story, over and over: Cut 5-15% of workforce because of the 'economy'. Meanwhile the economy keeps doing well, so people are making money.

I suspect there's another reason for the cuts, but the following is just BS. I'm hoping someone knows something substantive - a paper, a book, a term for it, etc.:

I often see a new management philosophy of hyper-aggression and disdain for all but money, treating labor (and nursing home patients, healthcare patients, journalism, students, etc.) as commodities to squeeze rather than contributors (and human beings and social goods) to value; treating profit as an outcome of squeezing every dollar/euro possible from everything rather than innovating productivity for society. No, it hasn't always been that way; remember Silicon Valley leaders treating their employees with respect, with flat hierarchies, 20% time dedicated to personal projects, etc etc.

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#66

Post by edmundsauto »

holoduke wrote: post #40

Who is buying a new car these days anyway? Maybe the older generation who are living in their cheap paid off homes. But i dont know anyone below 50 who ever bought a new car. 50k for a small refrigerator? Compared to a 10 year old bigger car for 15k with similar operating costs and no hassle.

The used car market has gotten expensive, you’re not saving much for a similar vehicle. And a 10 year old vehicle at that price point is, in the average case, absolutely not going to cost the same in maintenance.

The pendulum for new versus used has swung far in the direction of new cars, compared to a decade ago. The caveat is that it might take 6 months to get a new car due to inventory issues. I think used is much more expensive because it’s nearly the only option, regardless of cost, for folks who need a car this week.

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#67

Post by AwaAwa »

Fervicus wrote: post #58
siffland wrote: post #44

Working in Tech, I love a lot about electric cars. I just have a few issues I cannot seem to overcome (this is a personal ME thing about EV's and some new gas vehicles, your mileage may vary....pun intended). All new cars spy on you (well most do), but EV's are completely software driven and seem to be more intrusive. I want a car I can connect to the internet when I want to for updates and that is it. I also want an…

We seem to be inching more and more towards the dystopian future we always feared. The sad thing is we seem to be willingly and collectively marching towards it ourselves.

At least it's a democratic march.

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#68

Post by wolverine876 »

siffland wrote: post #44

Working in Tech, I love a lot about electric cars. I just have a few issues I cannot seem to overcome (this is a personal ME thing about EV's and some new gas vehicles, your mileage may vary....pun intended). All new cars spy on you (well most do), but EV's are completely software driven and seem to be more intrusive. I want a car I can connect to the internet when I want to for updates and that is it. I also want an…

> All new cars spy on you (well most do)

All of them per Mozilla's recent report:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categor...

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#69

Post by cf141q5325 »

elif wrote: post #25
cf141q5325 wrote: post #19

I am not so sure this is a bad thing. Electric vehicles still seem to be part of the same pattern of planed obsolesce and profitable waste production. Looking at the production and expected lifetime sustainability seems little more then an image from the marketing campaign. Not a surprise but maybe something worth mentioning given the hype.

My daily driver is over a decade old and has only ever entered a tire shop. It was the first generation of EV. When should I plan it's obsolescence? What is your experience with EV expiration that leads you to your conclusion? Please inform me in any form other than links to idle speculation by obviously biased parties like Motor Trend etc.

Thanks for the feedback, thats great to hear.

I was referencing the battery production and lifetime. As well as the reasonable to expect overall lifetime and repair ability. How many decades do you expect to use it?

Given what goes into these batteries and the inability to recycle the components, sustainable is quite questionable. This is a stop gap that only solves a very specific metric, fossil fuels.

There is also an economic incentive to sell more stuff to a limited numbers of customers. Thats visible with most products, its just market forces so i dont expect EV to magically withstand that. We likely need actually more sustainable (as in designed for) but that goes counter to market forces.

edit: To give examples for the general trend, i have two saws from the same maker, the newer one with a difficult to replicate plastic clip holding the sawblade. Defect controller board for mid-bikes would officially mean replacing the motor. Printers and phones dont need to be mentioned. Given fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders you cant expect much else. New models are designed and need to be sold. Thats problematic given the materials used.

Re: Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges

#70

Post by ianai »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #63
siffland wrote: post #44

Working in Tech, I love a lot about electric cars. I just have a few issues I cannot seem to overcome (this is a personal ME thing about EV's and some new gas vehicles, your mileage may vary....pun intended). All new cars spy on you (well most do), but EV's are completely software driven and seem to be more intrusive. I want a car I can connect to the internet when I want to for updates and that is it. I also want an…

> So you are telling me they could of been build with smaller batteries and save money and the environment, but they were not... If you charge and discharge a lithium ion cell from 4.2V to 2.75V, you might get 250 full cycles. If you stop charging at 4V and call that 100%, and stop discharging at 3.2V, you might get 2000 cycles before capacity is reduced. Phone and laptop manufacturers prefer to burn the battery out…

They know people will make horrible decisions and sue.
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