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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#61
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only illegal migrants aren't covered, legal ones are. If you make it available to everyone regardless of their legality to be on the soil you open up a whole bunch of other issues

Like what?

Like giving people an incentive to illegally come to your country ? If there are no difference between coming legally or illegally the choice is easy.

Like I could just book a one way flight to LA and become a US citizen because reasons ?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#62
post #3

Many went without masks. Some had water spurting from their machines, but others had nothing to tamp down the powder rising in the air. Does OSHA not require masks in these cases?

They do, just like the ATF requires all sorts of record-keeping for gun sales and the EPA has rules about disposal of chemicals and the IRS has all sorts of tax regulations.

However, all three organizations have been subject to decades of budgetary cuts/freezes/criticism by republican lawmakers and thus have a fraction of the inspectors they should.

https://blogs.luc.edu/compliance/?p=4470

https://www.kqed.org/news/11875988/minimal-to-non-existent-s...

https://peer.org/lack-of-scientists-dooms-epa-chemical-revie...

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/environment/bs-md-drinking...

The Senate also is allergic to appointing a permanent leader of the ATF: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-the-atf-is-often-leade...

The way republicans have functioned for a few decades (after realizing that legislatively trying to kill the ATF, EPA, OSHA, etc is unpopular) is to hamstring the budget for those departments, tie up leadership appointments as much as possible, and then in hearings shout about how ineffective the agencies are.

It's like starving someone and then criticizing them for being lazy and inactive.

The same technique is used to attack social services. WIC, a food stamp program for mothers with infants and children, requires yearly "certification" which involves in-person interviews at offices that few and far between, often not public transit accessible, and so on. How is a mother who is so poor she needs WIC (and thus may not even have a car) supposed to afford to take a day off from work and travel to an office so someone can verify that her child still exists?

Compare that to other government programs that benefit the wealthy and corporations. Do people writing off luxury cars, entire homes, and bizjets have to show up at a regional IRS office (annually) to have their records audited, proving that the luxury property is actually being used for business purposes and they're entitled to a writeoff (or being given use of said property without paying taxes on it)?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#63
post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Not agreeing/disagreeing with this you but I wonder how you feel about obesity tax ? Low physical fitness tax ? There's plenty of evidence that exercise and diet significantly impact health (especially on population level) - like you said there's an incentive to keep those people healthy contributors instead of chronic burdens on the system. Sounds like a logical extension but doesn't seem popular/implemented widely.

I feel great about slapping a tax on the profits of companies that sell highly processed, sugary, addictive foods so that the market selects for healthier alternatives.

Maybe subsidies for selling fresh fruit and veg also.

I guess you could tax their victims instead though... they don't have a lobby so theyre probably easier to take advantage of.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#64
post #2

"Nearly half of the workers suffering silicosis in the UCLA and UCSF study said their workplaces were using water to control dust. Roughly a quarter said they always had respiratory protection. Fazio said studies have found that in many shops, dust is so thick in the air that respirators cannot filter out a sufficient amount. Metzger argued that the kind of sophisticated and costly measures that would be needed to re…

A friend is in the countertop business in Florida. We just transitioned his shop to primarily rely on refurbed FANUC robotics performing the heavy lifting and cutting ops to prevent these health hazards (as he’s the one doing the cutting). Work areas are operated in lazy negative pressure with work atmosphere filtered prior to exhaust out of the building.

Regulation is the only way to prevent labor from being treated as disposable by these businesses, regardless of the status of these workers.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#65
post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Not agreeing/disagreeing with this you but I wonder how you feel about obesity tax ? Low physical fitness tax ? There's plenty of evidence that exercise and diet significantly impact health (especially on population level) - like you said there's an incentive to keep those people healthy contributors instead of chronic burdens on the system. Sounds like a logical extension but doesn't seem popular/implemented widely.

If you take this view, any tax on current state is like a "cancer tax" - you're just doubly punishing the person.

Sugar tax, coal tax, corn syrup tax, worked-your-employees-90h/week tax? Sure.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally this is also why everyone working in a nation has to receive these benefits (and any others guaranteed to citizens), otherwise you get migrant workers who suck up this, quite literally in this case, but don't receive healthcare.

Only illegal migrants aren't covered, legal ones are. If you make it available to everyone regardless of their legality to be on the soil you open up a whole bunch of other issues

Canada largely avoids this problem by not allowing a subset of illegal people to exist in the country. Canadians are polite, but working in canada without some sort of legal status is far harder than in the US. They have lots of immigrants, but vanishingly few illegal ones in comparison to the US.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#68
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever wore a respirator? Not a mask (which all already uncomfortable to wear all day), but the full respirator which is what is needed for this dust. I've done it for an hour when working with chemicals (different filter from dust, but otherwise the same) and I was glad to get it off.it is hard to blame someone for not wanting to wear them all day. They still should. If you need to wear a respirator all day i…

I have a wood shop, I wear a respirator constantly unless I've got the doors open and the fans on and I'm not going to be doing more than a one-off cut that afternoon. A properly fitted 3M 6800-series full-face respirator is pretty comfortable even for long periods and while wearing glasses. A 6200-series half-mask is even more comfortable, though a little awkward with glasses. The only problem is that a 6800-series…

Wearing a respirator mask is substantially more pleasant when you're just farting around your hobby shop (and only when the temperature is pleasant or cool), than it is when you're actually working at a productivity level expected of laborers, with heavy stone, in an industrial workshop, no matter the temperature and humidity.

Try spending an hour in your shop constantly lugging heavy tools and wood around wearing that respirator on a humid 80 degree day, then you can be smug and waggle your finger at laborers for not protecting themselves.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#69
yet another example of exploitation of people just trying to make a living. No regulations or minimal enforcement means companies/contractors do the job as cheaply as possible. Undercutting companies that actually care about the safety of their workers.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#70
post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Not agreeing/disagreeing with this you but I wonder how you feel about obesity tax ? Low physical fitness tax ? There's plenty of evidence that exercise and diet significantly impact health (especially on population level) - like you said there's an incentive to keep those people healthy contributors instead of chronic burdens on the system. Sounds like a logical extension but doesn't seem popular/implemented widely.

Public transit and walkable streets are also incentivized. People naturally end up walking more outside of US.
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