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Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

alprofoundation.org

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Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#61

Post by thuuuomas »

xenocratus wrote: post #25
uoaei wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so hard to infer? McKinsey, consulting firm famous worldwide for its ruthless "optimization" of all industries often at the expense of consumers in favor of realizing short-term gains that look good to C-suite and shareholders, causes shifts in business practices both directly in its involvement as well as indirectly by inspiring copycat competitive tactics.

Yes, it is hard to infer for someone who's never heard of McKinsey. Assuming everyone MUST've heard is in poor taste. As far as I'm aware, there's no curriculum necessary for users of this site.

It’s poor taste to expect every passing reference to be scoped to your specific minimum of background knowledge.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#62

Post by dtgriscom »

paganel wrote: post #22
DarkNova6 wrote: post #5

This article is a big nothing burger. Of course a foundation with the goal to "drive the transition to more healthful plant-based diets for human and planetary health. "[0] is against labeling highly-processed plant based food as "highly processed". Quote: > In an era of urgency to move populations towards more environmentally and nutritionally beneficial plant-based diets, making a simple switch to soya meat replace…

> making a simple switch to soya meat replacements and milk alternatives is a realistic and easy dietary change for most consumers to achieve Pardon my French, but I don’t know what the author of that article finds “easy” in that. Soy milk tastes like s*t, as does soy meat, in fact one of the main reasons we, Romanians, deposed Ceausescu back in the day was because his technocrats had tried to impose on us to eat soy…

Yes, "easy dietary change" is very subjective, so is "soy milk tastes like s*t". Both are overgeneralizations.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#63

Post by myshpa »

numpad0 wrote: post #56
myshpa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that people are dumb Are you sure? - Almond Milk - Over 1,000 years (Middle Ages) - Soy Milk - Over 2,000 years (China) - Rice Milk - Centuries (Asia) - Coconut Milk - Millennia (Southeast Asia) - Oat Milk - Centuries (Nordic countries) - Hemp Milk - Late 20th and 21st century - Cashew Milk - Late 20th century onwards - Poppy Seed Milk - Centuries (Eastern Europe) - Tigernut Milk - Ancient Egypt to present…

I'd rather agree with GP. There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing, most milk in that list are "milk" as the closest understandable description and not by exchange-ability.

> There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing

https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe

https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe

> not by exchange-ability

Milk is often used in recipes for its fat, moisture, and flavor. Many plant-based milks can serve as effective substitutes, depending on the dish. Just ask any vegan.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#64

Post by puchatek »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36
verall wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soy only tastes like shit if you don't know wtf to do with it. Plenty of great food made with tofu but I doubt that soy salami is any good.

> Soy only tastes like shit if you don't know wtf to do with it. In other words, if it's not highly processed ...

He's talking about batter and sauce, the way it's prepared in many Asian cuisines.

You might want to look up the definition of highly processed foods. Hint: it's not the things you do in a normal kitchen.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#65

Post by TeMPOraL »

puchatek wrote: post #64
TeMPOraL wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soy only tastes like shit if you don't know wtf to do with it. In other words, if it's not highly processed ...

He's talking about batter and sauce, the way it's prepared in many Asian cuisines. You might want to look up the definition of highly processed foods. Hint: it's not the things you do in a normal kitchen.

> Hint: it's not the things you do in a normal kitchen.

No, it's something with much greater control over quality, safety and consistency than I could ever hope achieve in the kitchen. The difference between process chemistry and cooking is like between civil engineering and playing with mud in your back yard.

Now it's true that industrial processing of food optimizes for different features than my own cooking (e.g. shelf-stability, bacteriological safety, process consistency, and of course, cost, vs. taste customized to my liking) - but that alone does not warrant saying "highly processed = bad", or playing motte-and-bailey with the "definition" of the term.

EDIT: see also the edit to comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37632381 for an actual definition of "processed food" as this term is used in the industry and regulations, which reinforces my point, and happens to cover everything you do to food in your kitchen.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#66

Post by myshpa »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #34
vostok wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend store brand soy milk, and tofu for that matter, if it's available in your area. It shouldn't require any additional ingredients to tatse good.

Doesn’t matter where you buy soy milk. If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar. Tofu has flavour. You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour.

> You have to remember soy milk is basically the left over shit from making tofu. All the healthy shit is left in the pulp including the flavour.

Not true.

First, you make soy milk by rehydrating soybeans, blending them with water, cooking the mixture, and then straining it. The remains are called okara. If you add a coagulant to the milk and cook it further, you'll get tofu curds, from which tofu is made. The remaining liquid is whey.

> Tofu has flavour

Flavour of raw tofu depends on the type of coagulant used.

> If it’s 100% national it’s disgusting. Most of what you buy in the super markets have added sugar.

Not all 100% natural soy milk is considered distasteful by everyone; taste is subjective.

Sugar is added for people who don't like the taste of a natural plant based milk - as a taste enhancement to make these milks taste sweeter and more palatable, akin to the naturally occurring lactose (sugar) in cow's milk. Sugar can improve the body, texture, and mouthfeel of plant-based milks, making them feel richer or creamier.

Not all plant-based milks contain added sugars. Many brands offer "unsweetened" versions for those who prefer no added sugar or are monitoring their sugar intake.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#67

Post by TeMPOraL »

virtualritz wrote: post #49
paganel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making a simple switch to soya meat replacements and milk alternatives is a realistic and easy dietary change for most consumers to achieve Pardon my French, but I don’t know what the author of that article finds “easy” in that. Soy milk tastes like s*t, as does soy meat, in fact one of the main reasons we, Romanians, deposed Ceausescu back in the day was because his technocrats had tried to impose on us to eat soy…

> Soy milk tastes like s*t, as does soy meat, [...] I do believe the stuff you had in Romania at the time did. But what is your base of comparison? I invite you to sample the produce a supermarket in a bigger German city has today in plant-based dairy/meat alternatives (soy and other). And then re-visit your opinion on this matter -- after bringing your taste bud's experience up to date, so to speak. ;) > in fact one…

> But what is your base of comparison? I invite you to sample the produce a supermarket in a bigger German city has today in plant-based dairy/meat alternatives (soy and other). And then re-visit your opinion on this matter -- after bringing your taste bud's experience up to date, so to speak. ;)

I'm going to guess the difference will boil down entirely to German soy milk being... an ultra-processed product :).

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#68

Post by TeMPOraL »

sgt wrote: post #31
malfist wrote: post #12

Maker of ultra processed food complains about being labeled as a maker of ultra processed food. News at 11. But seriously thinking of more adulterated food than plant based meat and dairy substances is hard. And it's not like they're healthier than the unprocessed version. Tofu is not better for you than chicken breast

News at 11 won't mean anything to the generations used to streaming only.

News at 11 means nothing outside of the US of A anyway, it's one of those phrases you pick up hanging out on the Internet...

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#69

Post by numpad0 »

myshpa wrote: post #63
numpad0 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather agree with GP. There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing, most milk in that list are "milk" as the closest understandable description and not by exchange-ability.

> There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe > not by exchange-ability Milk is often used in recipes for its fat, moisture, and flavor. Many plant-based milks can serve as effective substitutes, depending on the dish. Just ask any vegan.

> > There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing > https://www.google.com/search?q=

Well maybe it's just me but "cakes using rice powder" are not rice cakes... rice cakes is wax-like material made from mashed steamed rice, used both as meal or dessert ingredients in warm softened state.

Re: Labelling soya foods as ultra-processed is unhelpful

#70

Post by myshpa »

shrubble wrote: post #41
sgu999 wrote: post #30

Dairy milk straight of a cow doesn't look at all like what we can buy in a supermarket, and home made soya milk is very easy to do. I wouldn't bet on which one is the most "processed" by the industry. Alpro is obviously doing its share of lobbying, but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels for instance. All across Asia everyone knows what i…

It's so manufacturers and restaurants can't lie about what they are selling. Think about a canned coffee drink with 'milk' added, but then in very small letters on the side of the can it says *soy milk as an example

No, it's because the meat and dairy industry wants to maintain the status quo.

If it were for the reasons you listed, they'd require labeling it as "cow's milk" instead of just "milk".

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