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The End of Scantron Tests

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Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#61

Post by gnicholas »

bluepod4 wrote: post #50
function_seven wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, those things had 9 levels of contrast. With a fresh set of batteries the display would be crisp and contrasty at “3” or something. Then slowly you needed more and more levels to feel normal. Before you know it you’re running at contrast “9” and contemplating your next score. Then you realize, “oh yeah, batteries are on their way out.” As you snap the final AA place, you sign contentedly as you dial it back down…

Hmm. I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT (since scantron/bubble answers are being talked about) and enjoyed math a lot, I don’t recall this at all lol. Do you mind mentioning the year(s)? I said early 2000s in my first comment. The batteries lasted, at least for me. I recall having to replace them for sure. But it was never a big deal. And I’m speaking as a Bl…

> I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT

This is very strange behavior for HN (especially because many HNers got 800 on their math SATs, I would imagine).

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#62

Post by gnicholas »

didntcheck wrote: post #52
bluepod4 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the newer calculators? TI does still sell the older calculators but the newer ones have color screens at least. The interface is different (from my 2000s TI-83+ and TI-89) too. Also, I would have appreciated the app/online version when I was in school. The iPad app looks really nice. I felt a bit of jealousy when I saw it lol. I know you mentioned College Board’s calculator rules and iPads obviously wou…

It's also worth considering their competitors. My experience in the UK system was that TIs were a rarity and most people used graphing calculators from Casio (if they felt the need for an upgrade from a scientific calculator at all), which were cheaper, lighter, widely available in any good stationery section, and appeared more feature-rich (better screens with intuitive menus, built-in SD card slots, and probably be…

In the US, students were allowed to use the TI-89, but not the TI-9X, which. Had a QWERTY keyboard but was otherwise identical. The 89 could solve equations, but the 85 and 86 could do the same, if you inputted them in standard form (y = mx + b). It could also solve simultaneous equations, again if you standardized the formatting. This was definitely a useful feature, beyond what scientific calculators could do.

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#63

Post by whimsicalism »

gnicholas wrote: post #42
whimsicalism wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there are technologies that I think kids should learn that TI can’t even approach. Symbolic integration, for example.

But would a powerful calculator like that be allowed on the SAT?

Why shouldn’t it be?

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#64

Post by gnicholas »

whimsicalism wrote: post #63
gnicholas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would a powerful calculator like that be allowed on the SAT?

Why shouldn’t it be?

Well, some TI's aren't even allowed on the SAT. I think the reasoning is that they can solve equations for you. They do allow other TI's that can do this, but only if you format the equation appropriately. If GP is envisioning an even more powerful calculator, then it certainly wouldn't be allowed.

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#65

Post by LarsDu88 »

bhaney wrote: post #34
LarsDu88 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at this entrance exam to Harvard from 1869: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/education/harvarde... Good luck finding high school students today who could get a good score on this test. There's vastly more emphasis on classical knowledge: Greek, Latin, ancient history, mathematical proofs...

I can't even figure out what some of these are asking. Question 5 of the History and Geography section is just "Leonidas, Pausanias, Lysander." Am I supposed to write about what they have in common? Who they each were? When and where they ruled? Other questions seem to include some form of instruction while being equally short ("Compare Athens with Sparta") but that one and a couple others are just a topic with seemi…

Heh, obvious a cultured man of knowledge (or anyone who watched the movie 300 and read wikipedia) would know that these are major leaders of Sparta

Grant, Sherman, Meade

Churchill, Roosevelt, De Gaulle

It's to filter the cultured elite from the unread plebes.

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#66

Post by LarsDu88 »

JasonFruit wrote: post #55
LarsDu88 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at this entrance exam to Harvard from 1869: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/education/harvarde... Good luck finding high school students today who could get a good score on this test. There's vastly more emphasis on classical knowledge: Greek, Latin, ancient history, mathematical proofs...

That's an amazing test, if what you want to evaluate is the candidate's immersion in the wellspring of Western culture (and some math). I'm struck by how little fluency the Greek test requires, though: it looks to me (with my "small Latine and lesse Greeke") like it's mostly grammar work, since the difficult words are all supplied. I would have loved living among people whose elites valued Western culture so highly.

You still can. You just need to play online matches of Rome Total War, which is where I learned the vast majority of my classical historical knowledge, lol

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#67

Post by whimsicalism »

gnicholas wrote: post #64
whimsicalism wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn’t it be?

Well, some TI's aren't even allowed on the SAT. I think the reasoning is that they can solve equations for you. They do allow other TI's that can do this, but only if you format the equation appropriately. If GP is envisioning an even more powerful calculator, then it certainly wouldn't be allowed.

I get that it wouldn’t be allowed on the extant SAT, I am saying the SAT should be redesigned to include higher level questions that allow the use of technology like symbolic manipulators

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#68

Post by bluepod4 »

gnicholas wrote: post #61
bluepod4 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT (since scantron/bubble answers are being talked about) and enjoyed math a lot, I don’t recall this at all lol. Do you mind mentioning the year(s)? I said early 2000s in my first comment. The batteries lasted, at least for me. I recall having to replace them for sure. But it was never a big deal. And I’m speaking as a Bl…

> I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT This is very strange behavior for HN (especially because many HNers got 800 on their math SATs, I would imagine).

No. My goal was to provide evidence/an anecdote to back my thoughts/opinion about these calculators. I didn’t do any of the math competitions like AMC or olympiads or whatever like people on HN talk about on occasion. This would have probably sounded more appropriate: “As someone who did AMC and was really interested in math and used those calculators a lot, …”

But I couldn’t say that. So I came up with the closest thing I could have at 5AM after a night of partying. I did notice that it might sound a little douchey which is why I added the “I’m not bragging” part.

But thanks for assuming the worst! I believe that’s against HN’s guidelines. What I said is not much different from saying “As someone with X years of experience in Y engineering field, I think that…” People say things like that all of the time on HN, right? Many of us have similar X years of experience in Y engineering field. But we still say it.

> (especially because many HNers got 800 on their math SATs, I would imagine).

For sure.

I guess I was also shocked that people who have similar math backgrounds would be complaining the way you were about these calculators, again given my fondness for them. In my first comment, I did also mention that I don’t tend to exaggerate. So maybe that’s partially the disconnect here?

The other part was that I was pretty sure that you guys were talking about calculators from the 80s or 90s. I asked that question also but no one responded at that time. People just kept complaining about problems/issues with the calculators lol. (Someone finally replied and mentioned 1993!)

Sorry, but you guys were starting to turn this into some sort of Texas Instruments bashing circlejerk, which didn’t seem fair to the product.

Sidenote: HN isn’t all fun and games. Please don’t paint it as that. When I (and peers that I’ve spoken with) talk about HN, it’s usually characterized as a forum where really smart people like to bump heads. A place where people like to outsmart each other. A place where people nitpick article titles. You get the idea.

Your behavior correcting skills were needed during plenty of more appropriate times. For example, when someone with a username like “koreanguy” said that he wanted to personally kill Timnit Gebru if he could. No downvotes or flag after many refreshes. Want to know why? Because plenty of other men were leaving similar disgusting comments in that post. This is just one example out of many of “weird” behavior on this forum. How many times has the mod here left that “be nice and follow the guidelines” comment on charged articles? (Some) HN users love a good dogwhistle!

But my little SAT comment is deserving of a reprimand lol?

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#69

Post by gnicholas »

bluepod4 wrote: post #68
gnicholas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not bragging at all but as someone who got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT This is very strange behavior for HN (especially because many HNers got 800 on their math SATs, I would imagine).

No. My goal was to provide evidence/an anecdote to back my thoughts/opinion about these calculators. I didn’t do any of the math competitions like AMC or olympiads or whatever like people on HN talk about on occasion. This would have probably sounded more appropriate: “As someone who did AMC and was really interested in math and used those calculators a lot, …” But I couldn’t say that. So I came up with the closest t…

Hilarious to quote the guidelines at me. I wasn't "assuming the worst" — I was just pointing out that it's very odd to gratuitously mention your SAT scores. (I've been on HN for a decade and never seen anything like it; it looks like you're rather new, so might not have that background.) It doesn't prove how much or little you used your calculator. People who get 650 or 710 use their calculators too, perhaps even more! If you had said "I used my calculator a lot, though not at the level of math competitions," that would have been more enlightening. I appreciate your mentioning the 5 AM partying context, which definitely helps.

Re: The End of Scantron Tests

#70

Post by bluepod4 »

gnicholas wrote: post #69
bluepod4 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. My goal was to provide evidence/an anecdote to back my thoughts/opinion about these calculators. I didn’t do any of the math competitions like AMC or olympiads or whatever like people on HN talk about on occasion. This would have probably sounded more appropriate: “As someone who did AMC and was really interested in math and used those calculators a lot, …” But I couldn’t say that. So I came up with the closest t…

Hilarious to quote the guidelines at me. I wasn't "assuming the worst" — I was just pointing out that it's very odd to gratuitously mention your SAT scores. (I've been on HN for a decade and never seen anything like it; it looks like you're rather new, so might not have that background.) It doesn't prove how much or little you used your calculator. People who get 650 or 710 use their calculators too, perhaps even mor…

I, too, have been using HN for over a decade. I never add my email to the accounts for recovery lol.

> perhaps even more!

And that’s also part of the disconnect here. I don’t believe this to be true fully. Growing up, the people who performed the best were the ones that really delved into the features of the calculator. They also installed more games. Did programming. The ones that did more than what the teacher taught. They would be the ones to remember whether not there were “devastating?!?!” contrast or battery issues. That’s just my opinion and experience (which is also why I provided other relevant personal details for perspective).

I do understand your line of thinking though (e.g. people who perform the worst use the calculator more because it takes them longer to do homework). The question then becomes this. Who has the better, unbiased memory of how the calculator functions: the struggling student or the one who cultivated a fondness and really explored its capabilities?

I did mention that I used my calculator(s) a lot in the same sentence that you had an issue with at least lol

Also, I just searched for HN comments related to SAT. There are a few from high schoolers and adults. Not many. But enough to satisfy me lol!

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