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New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

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Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#61

The problem with conversations about this topic and similar topics (9/11) is that almost no-one who cares about the topic deeply enough to have an argument about it online is interested because they're just super into ballistics and forensics and don't care about the political implications. It's all motivated reasoning because they don't like the _implications_ of the official story for whatever reason (or, alternati…

Exactly. How a CIA faction used Cuban exiles to assassinate him is far less interesting than why.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#62

I don't know why people are so obsessed with this conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor says it was Oswald. Why invest time speculating and arguing over it when there is no way to verify anything? This new revelation doesn't change anything, it's just hearsay.

If there were three shots, Occam's Razor says it wasn't Oswald alone. For it to have been Oswald alone, he would have needed to reload and re-aim in a superhuman way. So that isn't the simplest explanation. There are a lot of people who didn't/don't like the US, and a lot of people who like the US but didn't like Kennedy! It is not exactly outlandish to think that maybe >1 people wanted Kennedy dead.

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Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#63
post #55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably if you're about to comment on this post, you've got some motivated reasoning behind it that has nothing to do with finding out what really happened. I'm not sure that's true in this case. I remember 9/11, but I wasn't even born yet when the Kennedy assassination happened. I doubt that many people under age 70 remember that personally. It doesn't really have emotional salience for most people now. For me, i…

> Even if there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, I don't see how it's relevant to current politics... A group with that much power - to kill a president then get it covered up - is not going to just fade away quietly. It'd have to be a powerful group and powerful groups have a habit of lasting beyond the lives of the members. If it turned out that there was a conspiracy it is actually quite likely that the group that or…

> A group with that much power - to kill a president then get it covered up - is not going to just fade away quietly. It'd have to be a powerful group and powerful groups have a habit of lasting beyond the lives of the members.

> If it turned out that there was a conspiracy it is actually quite likely that the group that organised it are still active.

I don't think these are correct assumptions. Sixty years is a long time, and the world has changed a lot. The Soviet Union is a shell of its former self (hence the current Ukraine conflict), Fidel Castro is dead, etc.

> if it was the Israelis

IMO this is one of the dumber and least plausible of the conspiracy theories.

What are we even to conclude from this, though? Of course Israel still exists, but what exactly are you trying to imply about the current situation? Netanyahu, by the way, was 14 years old in 1963 and was actually living in Pennsylvania, US at the time.

> there'd be no reason to believe they stopped

Stopped what?

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#64

I don't know why people are so obsessed with this conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor says it was Oswald. Why invest time speculating and arguing over it when there is no way to verify anything? This new revelation doesn't change anything, it's just hearsay.

Occam's razor is a tool not a proof.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#65

I don't know why people are so obsessed with this conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor says it was Oswald. Why invest time speculating and arguing over it when there is no way to verify anything? This new revelation doesn't change anything, it's just hearsay.

If there were three shots, Occam's Razor says it wasn't Oswald alone. For it to have been Oswald alone, he would have needed to reload and re-aim in a superhuman way. So that isn't the simplest explanation. There are a lot of people who didn't/don't like the US, and a lot of people who like the US but didn't like Kennedy! It is not exactly outlandish to think that maybe >1 people wanted Kennedy dead.

And they shoot at the same time?

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#66
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This can be mostly explained by a mental disorder Kinda like the Reichstag fire huh

I look at it like the crazy general in Dr Strangelove that is trying to start a world war I highly doubt that a secret in the caliber of “let’s kill the President” can be kept by so many people for such a long time. In my experience large organizations of people just don’t work that way

    I highly doubt that a secret in the caliber of “let’s 
    kill the President” can be kept by so many people for 
    such a long time.
Agree.

However, what if that wasn't the conspiracy?

What if the conspiracy was, "let's avoid war with the USSR"?

If the US Government knew of or suspected USSR involvement in JFK's assassination: their choices were essentially "war with the USSR", "look like fools who bowed down to the USSR", or "pretend that Oswald was a lone, crazy guy."

In other words: not a conspiracy per se where the government was en masse covering up some specific thing they knew to be true. I agree with you that feels implausible. Especially since presumably a significant portion of the government would have been opposed to the assassination or the cover-up.

But it might have been more of a concerted effort to look the other way. Like, "If we investigate Oswald and the investigation too closely, the trail might lead to Russia or one of its satellite states, and therefore war, and therefore nuclear war. So therefore let's all agree that Oswald was a lone gunman because it sure beats war with the USSR."

That does not seem impractical to me.

Remember, the country was still reeling from the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the chilling possibility of having narrowly avoided nuclear war.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large organizations I don’t think large organisations can act in such a coordinated manner at all but they can be manipulated. Cartels with a lot to lose can take their secrets to the grave, in particular if their constituents have a lot to lose. Everyone else has “unfortunate accidents”.

So, just from the top of my head and rather recently: 1. the NSA lost all of its malwares/zero days to the Russians 2. The NSA lost a huge amount of documents detailing a large amount of their billion dollars sigint sources and tech catalog 3. China was able to steal US nuclear weapons design 4. The CIA itself lost its entire internal wiki 5. Top secret documents were on discord for over a month Yet somehow these omn…

Organizations keep secrets all the time. A huge amount of American history is learned after the fact when documents are declassified.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#68
Such a statement about the "magic bullet" leaves me with tremendous doubt. This idea that he put a pristine bullet that he found in the limousine, which later became the magic bullet, but somehow it got switched, just seems too far-fetched for me.

All these years he never told anyone? It is completely different from his written statement at the time. After all these years, I call BS.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#69
The recollections of an 88 year old person about an event 60 years ago are simply not credible. He may truly remember picking up the bullet, but that doesn't mean it actually happened. Since he didn't mention it in his memos at the time, it probably didn't.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#70
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy that he chose to keep this secret for six decades. I wonder what possible reason he could have to bring it up now. Hmm, hmm, hmm.

> Crazy that he chose to keep this secret for six decades. I wonder what possible reason he could have to bring it up now. Hmm, hmm, hmm. Maybe because he's 88 years old and likely to die soon? More or less a deathbed confession. Consider that Watergate's "Deep Throat" Mark Felt only came forward at age 91.

Mark Felt had more to lose, this guy might just be looking for a payday
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