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Molly Holzschlag has died

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Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#61

Post by throwawayapples »

weinzierl wrote: post #32
gcanyon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She's been very sick for a long time and publicly struggling with enormous medical expenses (there have been various crowdfunding efforts over the years and she had to sell her `molly.com` domain to pay for treatment). My wife and I were both born in the U.S. and have lived here most of our lives; we love this place. The above is why we have zero intention to retire here.

I understand you, but health care is expensive everywhere. The difference between the US and many other countries is in the distribution of this cost. So, for example, if a young person from the US or elsewhere comes to Germany to study they will get health care basically for free. I think (and I might be wrong) if you move to Germany as retiree the public health care system would not be open to you. You could choose…

Extortionist medical insurers coupled with regulatory capture.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#62

Post by ploxiln »

nikolay wrote: post #51
weinzierl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you, but health care is expensive everywhere. The difference between the US and many other countries is in the distribution of this cost. So, for example, if a young person from the US or elsewhere comes to Germany to study they will get health care basically for free. I think (and I might be wrong) if you move to Germany as retiree the public health care system would not be open to you. You could choose…

That's absolutely false. For example, I buy a brand medication in Europe without insurance for price many times lower than the generic drug in the State's copay! There numerous examples, but most recent example is my wife's Levothyroxine. I buy a German-made medication for $1 in Bulgaria. In the States, a generic version made by noname Indian company has a $10 copay. Same with the Metformin I buy. The original brand…

> No need for intermediary companies to authorize it - you just go directly to a lab, which keeps the costs low as there's fierce competition for your business unlike in America

> Healthcare should never be a business!

... seems to me like Healthcare should actually be a normal business. Instead of whatever it is in the US - which as you explain, really makes no sense.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#63

Post by stcroixx »

jzb wrote: post #43
stcroixx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people don't want universal health care for reasons that are not incredible. I've had employer provided insurance I'm happy with ever since I left my student insurance plan over 25 years ago and have few complaints about it. I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that might provide worse care than what I've always had. Kaiser in CA for example is the worst insurance I've had - would not wa…

"I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that might provide worse care than what I've always had." Your insurance is employer provided? You risk that every day then. Lots of people in the past few years have woken up to find out that their job - and with it their employer provided insurance - has gone bye-bye. Yeah, we have COBRA to continue it at exorbitant rates for some period of time. But healt…

It's a minuscule risk I'm comfortable with and manage actively. I got into this line of work because there's high demand. I haven't been without a job and make all of my career related decisions to optimize continued employment. I got bored of software 20 years ago and really am only in it for the insurance and pay. I've been laid off and gotten another job the same day.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#64

Post by nikolay »

ploxiln wrote: post #62
nikolay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely false. For example, I buy a brand medication in Europe without insurance for price many times lower than the generic drug in the State's copay! There numerous examples, but most recent example is my wife's Levothyroxine. I buy a German-made medication for $1 in Bulgaria. In the States, a generic version made by noname Indian company has a $10 copay. Same with the Metformin I buy. The original brand…

> No need for intermediary companies to authorize it - you just go directly to a lab, which keeps the costs low as there's fierce competition for your business unlike in America > Healthcare should never be a business! ... seems to me like Healthcare should actually be a normal business. Instead of whatever it is in the US - which as you explain, really makes no sense.

Yeah, because it's already a business but non-competitive like in the States. Pharmacies can still sell me medications without an Rx - it's not allowed, but they still do it, because why do I need to schedule a doctor's visit get a medication thats for life (like my wife's Levothyroxine).

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#65

Post by stcroixx »

neongodzilla wrote: post #48
stcroixx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people don't want universal health care for reasons that are not incredible. I've had employer provided insurance I'm happy with ever since I left my student insurance plan over 25 years ago and have few complaints about it. I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that might provide worse care than what I've always had. Kaiser in CA for example is the worst insurance I've had - would not wa…

So millions of Americans don't have access to healthcare and die early because they can't afford it, but you don't want things to change because you're comfortable? Got it.

I advocate for myself, others should do the same. Medicaid is there for retirees and disabled folks and the rest of us should be working. I don't know what these millions you mention are doing where they can't afford healthcare, but there are plenty of job and education opportunities out there that will provide insurance if you're willing to study and work, which I think is fair.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#66

Post by maxerickson »

nikolay wrote: post #51
weinzierl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you, but health care is expensive everywhere. The difference between the US and many other countries is in the distribution of this cost. So, for example, if a young person from the US or elsewhere comes to Germany to study they will get health care basically for free. I think (and I might be wrong) if you move to Germany as retiree the public health care system would not be open to you. You could choose…

That's absolutely false. For example, I buy a brand medication in Europe without insurance for price many times lower than the generic drug in the State's copay! There numerous examples, but most recent example is my wife's Levothyroxine. I buy a German-made medication for $1 in Bulgaria. In the States, a generic version made by noname Indian company has a $10 copay. Same with the Metformin I buy. The original brand…

The cash price will often be lower than the copay (which isn't a good thing, but it signals that the issue is benefit design rather than cost of provision).

For example, Walmart sells a month supply of levothyroxine for $4 if you don't get your PBM involved.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#67

Post by stcroixx »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #35
stcroixx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people don't want universal health care for reasons that are not incredible. I've had employer provided insurance I'm happy with ever since I left my student insurance plan over 25 years ago and have few complaints about it. I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that might provide worse care than what I've always had. Kaiser in CA for example is the worst insurance I've had - would not wa…

Universal health care doesn’t preclude the existence of private care. A number of countries have universal public health care, but if you want to pay extra, there is also private insurance and a private network of physicians and hospitals.

So I would have to spend more for the same care I have now? No thanks.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#68

Post by s5300 »

stcroixx wrote: post #65
neongodzilla wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So millions of Americans don't have access to healthcare and die early because they can't afford it, but you don't want things to change because you're comfortable? Got it.

I advocate for myself, others should do the same. Medicaid is there for retirees and disabled folks and the rest of us should be working. I don't know what these millions you mention are doing where they can't afford healthcare, but there are plenty of job and education opportunities out there that will provide insurance if you're willing to study and work, which I think is fair.

[dead]

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#69

Post by kevmo »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #52
keithnz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I find it odd, just add up the revenue of the health insurance industry, that's how much you americans are paying, then see how much profit and overheads they have, that's how much health care money is directly not going to actual health outcomes, and then work out if you can do a better system. Should be a case that overall, everyone pays less and you get better outcomes. But, I can't see it ever happening for…

We were just one Senate vote away (Joe Lieberman) from getting a public option during the Obama administration. The law essentially needed a 60% supermajority to pass and it had 59% support of our legislature. Quite tragic - the next generation may get to try again.

You can try right now.

Re: Molly Holzschlag has died

#70

Post by OfSanguineFire »

stcroixx wrote: post #67
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal health care doesn’t preclude the existence of private care. A number of countries have universal public health care, but if you want to pay extra, there is also private insurance and a private network of physicians and hospitals.

So I would have to spend more for the same care I have now? No thanks.

Not necessarily. For some countries mandatory public health contributions plus good private insurance, can still work out to cheaper than good private insurance alone in the US. This is because when private insurance has to compete with a universal public option, prices go down.
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