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ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

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Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#61

What's with the gradient/rainbow led trend? Is it just me that don't have the necessary cultural references to find it appealing? To me I immediately associate it with an unprofessional, cheap look.

It demonstrates the level of control the firmware can have over LEDs. Cheap boards might have a single color setting or only be able to set blocks of keys (i.e. alpha vs modifier keys). No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.

Some people don't like the lighting at all, and that's ok. It's a preference and you control it. If you don't like changing colors or lighting whatsoever, then turn it off.

I switch backlight colors based on layout. It helps me remember where less frequently used shortcuts are, and is rather useful to me and I'm sure many others use it in a similar manner. And plenty of people just set a color that matches the color scheme of their desk, office, or computer.

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#63

That's very expensive! I would recommend buying a Dilemma instead: https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/ or building one of the hundreds of DIY open source keyboards e.g.: - https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside (46-56 keys) - https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM (38 keys)

[deleted]

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#64
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and lack of F1-F12 is a show stopper for me, I use them in my IDE.

These small keyboards trade-off the benefit of "bring all the keys within easy reach of the hands" at the cost of a more complicated layout. The intent is "be able to press F1-F12 without having to move hands so far from home row"; it's not "I want a smaller keyboard and don't need F1-F12".

While I agree in theory, in practice I feel like there is a noticeable difference between the frequency of F1-12 and the punctuation characters OP listed. Moreover, there are not many tools to help people find layer arrangements that are actually ergonomic besides their own intuition. Layers are surprisingly complex and subtle for many reasons here are a few I can think of:

- Layer transition fatigue: If you have many layers, it can be difficult to remember which key(s) triggers them. This can be improved with time and practice. In addition, you might want to arrange the symbols on your layers to minimize the amount of layer transitions needed. For example, if you type ./ a lot if would be nice if they were on the same layer and either a roll or an alternation.

- Awkward finger patterns: if we go back to the ./ example, if for some reason you decide / must go on another layer, then you probably want / to be close to period. If you design your layer in a way where / ends up under qwerty P, then you’ll have to contort your fingers to make the ./ pattern. This gets way more complicated when you consider all the possible symbol patterns such as ->, =>, :=, , (“, “), ):, etc…

- Unexpected layer transition same finger usage: people will sometimes naively put layer transition keys in suboptimal places. For instance, if you use right thumb for space, then I would argue it’s a bad idea to use another right thumb key for shift. The reason is because in between sentences you put a space after the previous sentence and then press shift to capitalize the next letter. If they space and shift are on the same finger then you will probably find this sequence uncomfortable. A similar logic applies for backspace. I would argue space and backspace should be on the same thumb because they are pretty much mutually exclusive. Also your space thumb is used to repeating, and backspacing often involves a lot of repeating.

Overall, I think layers do have a lot of potential to work, but I feel like there aren’t many tools to help people iron out all these subtle issues. I’ve been working on making such a tool, but testing it takes a lot of time due to the first point.

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#65
This is lovely and kind of tempting but, like every keyboard-nerd keyboard, it's made by and for someone who wants the smallest possible number of keys in front of them and a bunch of toggleable modes.

I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back so that when I launch an action in Illustrator I don't have to hold down the fn key, along with whatever other modifier key I may be using to distinguish between a couple other action assigned to that key. I have turned my capslock into command-alt-shift and that helps a lot, I want additional meta keys that I can use for command-shift and command-alt while still having the existing meta keys, not less - this has nine unmarked keys in the default layout, and two of those are probably slated for becoming space and return; my Mac has exactly the same number of meta keys if I count capslock, and dedicated space/return buttons.

Their Moonlander's much more sensible, with a baker's dozen of meta keys around each half's keyboard block. Hitting a little one-handed chord almost seems reasonable, compared to all the one-handed stretches I've got in my daily art routine. I'd be super-tempted by this or an Ergodox EZ if they were putting them on sale because they are no longer the new hotness, they might actually see integration into my workflow, but there's absolutely no price difference.

Maybe I'll just get baked and spend an hour futzing with this idea I just had to make the f-keys of my Mac's keyboard accessible by having Karabiner translate a chord of (fkey)+(the key to its left) into (fkey). I already have the baked part. And that works on my existing laptop keyboard as well as the 90%-identical Apple wireless board on my desk...

EDIT:

I did indeed spend an hour swearing at Karabiner's config file and make f(n)+f(-1) into f(n) and it is wonderful, and I am going to make a fn+f(n)=(nothing) rule to train myself to use it. Thanks for the inspiration, keyboard with too few bucky bits!

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These small keyboards trade-off the benefit of "bring all the keys within easy reach of the hands" at the cost of a more complicated layout. The intent is "be able to press F1-F12 without having to move hands so far from home row"; it's not "I want a smaller keyboard and don't need F1-F12".

I've been using these types of keyboards for a couple years now, and I find that although the enthusiast community has sort of gravitated towards For example, let's say you need to do Shift-Option-F12. First, you need to hold a modifier to bring your F key layer, possibly a separate or chorded modifier to get you to the F-keys above 10 since you only have have 10 numeric digits. Then, that needs to be compatible with…

It's understandable if some people would prefer a larger layout. I wouldn't argue people should be using smaller keyboards.

It's "I don't mind moving my hand to hit the key" vs "I don't mind holding down some Fn key to hit the key". (Or with F1-F12 on Macbooks, you need to both hold down a Fn key and move your hand).

For an example of "36 keys ... how", I think the popular miryoku layout is fascinating. https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku/tree/master/docs/re... -- Often, mnemonics for particular keys aren't all that complicated.

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#68

This is lovely and kind of tempting but, like every keyboard-nerd keyboard, it's made by and for someone who wants the smallest possible number of keys in front of them and a bunch of toggleable modes. I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back so that when I launch an action in Illustrator I don't have to hold down the fn key, along with whatever other modifier key I may be using to distinguish between a coup…

> I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back...

This is my issue as well. I want a "normal" keyboard, only ergonomic, split, with all the fancy joint happiness that brings.

It seems these are impossible to find without some kind of 3d printing and DIY from scratch.

I am not able to invest in learning a new keyboarding process because I have to work on too many different computers over a year span that I have no control over, and I don't want my muscle memory to erode because of one special keyboard on my home workstation.

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#69
post #2

My wife isn't going to be happy about this... I have an ErgoDox EZ at home, and a Moonlander for work. I absolutely love these keyboards. They have played a significant role in reducing pain I experience from arthritis.

how's the moonlander btw? i'm thinking about getting one specifically for work.

Two years or so in, I'm hooked. I've already decided that if I return to office I'll need one for each location (not interested in carrying one back and forth).

I've used an "ergonomic" "split layout" keyboard for years. Specifically, I used the MSFT Natural 4000 since about 2010 due to RSI and typing-related pain. Even with that keyboard, I still had pinky/ring-finger related RSI from modifier keys (shift/ctrl/esc), but it was rather minimal if I was careful and kept my "off-hours" related typing minimal.

I picked up the Moonlander after looking at multiple truly-split keyboards including the Ergodox, Nyquist, Kinesis Advantage 2 (and later 360). I've used a Via/QMK keyboard as well and I will say that Oryx and the Configurator seem much more user-friendly and featureful.

The auto-shift feature is great, as I rarely need to use the shift key for normal typing. Having a toggle key to quickly disable it for things like gaming or the odd application that doesn't detect keydown/up for shifted keys as expected (or perhaps it's on the kbd firmware side and isn't sending a held-down shifted key, who knows) is rather useful.

Layers are your friend and don't be worried about printing out a layer map while you're learning. And don't be afraid to change your layout to try something.

I changed my layout multiple times a day for the first two or so weeks, maybe once a day for another two weeks, then perhaps once a week to once a month over the next few months. I think I last changed my layout 6 months ago to add a new shortcut for a feature added to my IDE.

If you're already accustomed to a split keyboard, expect minimal growing pains beyond learning your layer keys and such. But if it's your first time using a split KB, then you'll have that adjustment too. MSFT used to have a sculpted kb that wasn't a full split and that was a good "training wheels" kb for a split, but I don't think they make that board anymore. Basically, if you don't alrady use a split, expect to reach for keys on the other side a bit until your brain adjusts.

I also suggest using background colors in your layers to indicate hotkeys and such. It started as a crutch for me, but I've come to really like it as it serves as a bit of a reminder for those less-used shortcuts.

The ability to hot-swap your key switches and caps is great. I ended up with a highly tactile switch that isn't much louder than the usual "cherry MX browns", but that is entirely optional. The out of the box keys are perfectly fine for those not interested in that feature.

Re: ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using these types of keyboards for a couple years now, and I find that although the enthusiast community has sort of gravitated towards For example, let's say you need to do Shift-Option-F12. First, you need to hold a modifier to bring your F key layer, possibly a separate or chorded modifier to get you to the F-keys above 10 since you only have have 10 numeric digits. Then, that needs to be compatible with…

"a profusion of shortcuts that you need to remember" -- sure, true, but you're already talking about something esoteric like shift-option-F12. Were you remembering that in the first place?

I hate to be that guy but this line of reasoning leads to “redefine every shortcut for every app” in order to fit your keyboard. Yes, it’s possible, but cognitive overload is also a thing.
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