Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 110 posts

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#61

Post by gettodachoppa »

jdkee wrote: post #16

Perhaps we should end the fifty years long "War on Some Drugs" in the US that funds the cartels.

Can we please stop it with the victim blaming? This is the cartel's fault and no one else. I've never seen people as self-hating as liberal Americans. Only the English come close.

I mean, it's great to be introspective and self-aware of what your country is doing, but not to the degree that you put the blame for drug crime on the people trying to eradicate drug usage. The problem with the war on drugs isn't that it exists, it's that it's done limp-wristedly (mainly because of objections by bleeding hearts), instead of being waged ruthlessly.

The end result of social libertarianism results in the same thing as for economic libertarianism: misery for the majority.

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#62

Post by foogazi »

justin66 wrote: post #54
hackermailman wrote: post #25

borderland beat covered this and it was a combination of the students stealing a cartel bus used for smuggling and the corrupt local government asking for favors of the cartels they work for to teach a lesson. Btw there is many more terrible things surfacing from mexico these days like everyday plebs having to post identifiers on their vehicles to indicate tax was paid to some cartel then rivals posting videos of kil…

> students stealing a cartel bus used for smuggling That sounds rather irrational of them. Also, not what the NYT reported.

How I heard it reported before is students in that part of Mexico have the custom of commanding buses for free rides to nearby towns

Local cartels know and use students to smuggle drugs, weapons, people on these rides

Police and another local cartel were aware buses coming into their turf

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#63

Post by foogazi »

PostOnce wrote: post #36
jdkee wrote: post #16

Perhaps we should end the fifty years long "War on Some Drugs" in the US that funds the cartels.

Why does the war on drugs cause Mexico to fall apart and not Canada? I don't think Mexico's problems would be solved if drugs disappeared tomorrow. For example, the cartels are robbing fuel [depots, refineries, regular gas stations, etc]. They'll keep doing that, it's profitable. So, how can Mexico solve its own problems? I have no idea.

> Why does the war on drugs cause Mexico to fall apart and not Canada?

Does Canada produce Marijuana and Cocaine ? Mexico is an agricultural producing country

> I don't think Mexico's problems would be solved if drugs disappeared tomorrow.

Mexico was already in trouble before the drug trade kicked off

Low education, low productivity, limited opportunities

How many Canadians jump the wall to wash dishes in the US ?

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#64

Post by [deleted] »

foogazi wrote: post #62
justin66 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> students stealing a cartel bus used for smuggling That sounds rather irrational of them. Also, not what the NYT reported.

How I heard it reported before is students in that part of Mexico have the custom of commanding buses for free rides to nearby towns Local cartels know and use students to smuggle drugs, weapons, people on these rides Police and another local cartel were aware buses coming into their turf

[deleted]

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#65

Post by foogazi »

walterbell wrote: post #30
foogazi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there ever been a shootout with American law enforcement and the Cartels? Think about how much drugs are smuggled across the border and the seas ? Where are the border encounters? Where are the National Guard shooting Narcos ? The Coast Guard ? Texas Rangers ? Sheriffs ? FBI ? How many drugs are being smuggled under Abbott's nose in Texas by the Zetas and what does he do ? Drown migrants on the Rio Grande

From the article: > The murder rate in Ciudad Juarez is 103 per 100,000. One of the murder capitals of the world. The murder rate in El Paso, Texas is 4.4 per 100,000. About the US average. These are the same city geographically .. El Paso, and the US in general, are peaceful because the cartels are happy to maintain an unspoken agreement: The US Keeps its military and policing assets out of Mexico, the Cartels keep…

> The US Keeps its military and policing assets out of Mexico, the Cartels keep their violence in Mexico

The US also keeps its military and policing outside of the US

Nothing stops the gangs at the border

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#67

Post by tptacek »

walterbell wrote: post #44
tptacek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, again, is a blog that ran within the last few weeks a story suggesting that the Jews were America's "Cossacks", an ethnic group granted special favors and privileges. Maybe we can cool it with the analysis from this person on HN threads.

Please feel free to start a thread on that topic. This thread is about Mexican cartels. Would appreciate pointers to scenario analysis of potential US-cartel conflicts.

It's nothing personal, I just hate the feeling that I have to interrogate every sentence of someone's writing to find where they're smuggling in the weird fascist stuff. If they're just Orson Scott Card-style LARPing about international conflicts, well, we can do better than this, right?

You're more familiar with this blog than I am (this being the second time you've brought it up here). Is there some qualification they have on this issue that I didn't know about? I'm happy to stop bringing this up if there's some particular reason to take them seriously.

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#68

Post by PostOnce »

ipaddr wrote: post #57
PostOnce wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the war on drugs cause Mexico to fall apart and not Canada? I don't think Mexico's problems would be solved if drugs disappeared tomorrow. For example, the cartels are robbing fuel [depots, refineries, regular gas stations, etc]. They'll keep doing that, it's profitable. So, how can Mexico solve its own problems? I have no idea.

The war on drugs in the 80s was focused on Colombia and disrupting Pablo Escobar's coke empire. That was successful but caused production to move closer to Mexico. Everything was stable until the national army took over policing enforcement in 2006 and now you have many 1000x more murders. Some of the murders that are reported as cartel murders can be national army murders. It's a different situation that resolves it…

That tells me what happened, but not why? (I appreciate the detail, though)

Why isn't Canada a major narcotics manufacturing center? Why is Colombia?

I think the answer is probably complex and involves poverty (meaning switching from lawful occupation to unlawful occupation is a bigger difference than in, say, Canada) and corruption/lawlessness (which may also be consequently tied to the poverty, if corruption is a way to escape it).

It must surely go much deeper than "it's America's fault", and I think it may also be solvable without American intervention or action (though of course, it would be harder)

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#69

Post by raincom »

hackermailman wrote: post #25

borderland beat covered this and it was a combination of the students stealing a cartel bus used for smuggling and the corrupt local government asking for favors of the cartels they work for to teach a lesson. Btw there is many more terrible things surfacing from mexico these days like everyday plebs having to post identifiers on their vehicles to indicate tax was paid to some cartel then rivals posting videos of kil…

Can you paste that particular borderlandbeat.com post on this?

Re: Why Did a Drug Gang Kill 43 Students? Text Messages Hold Clues

#70

Post by PostOnce »

foogazi wrote: post #63
PostOnce wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the war on drugs cause Mexico to fall apart and not Canada? I don't think Mexico's problems would be solved if drugs disappeared tomorrow. For example, the cartels are robbing fuel [depots, refineries, regular gas stations, etc]. They'll keep doing that, it's profitable. So, how can Mexico solve its own problems? I have no idea.

> Why does the war on drugs cause Mexico to fall apart and not Canada? Does Canada produce Marijuana and Cocaine ? Mexico is an agricultural producing country > I don't think Mexico's problems would be solved if drugs disappeared tomorrow. Mexico was already in trouble before the drug trade kicked off Low education, low productivity, limited opportunities How many Canadians jump the wall to wash dishes in the US ?

> Does Canada produce (farmed narcotics)

But why don't they produce world-leading levels of illegal synthetic narcotics, purely in search of profit on the American illicit market? If farming isnt viable and drugs are massively profitable, why does Canada not suffer from the allure of American dollars?

> Mexico was already in trouble

I agree, but does that mean Mexico cannot solve its problems without an American Savior intervening?

I have begun to wonder if it's ever possible for a poorer country beset by corruption to be helped in any meaningful way by outsiders, or if change necessarily has to come from within.

Post reply on HN