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In Sweden, cash is king no more

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Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#61

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

gyardley wrote: post #15

I would have to trust my government a whole lot more than I do to be comfortable with this - and then trust that my government isn't going to change over the course of my lifetime. Surely Swedes buy drugs and cheat on their taxes, just like the rest of us. Even if you don't - why wouldn't you want to ensure you can quietly conduct an illegal transaction, should a currently unforseen need arise in the future? Getting…

To me this is like the argument that touch screen only phones are less good to keyboard/keypad phones because you lose the tactile feel and cannot text as you drive.

I am not going to claim I am completely innocent, but a cashless society has many benefits. The fact that it may impede the ability of others to cheat on their taxes or purchase contraband is a poor excuse to remain on cash. Why does the majority of the population have to suffer?

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#62

Post by joejohnson »

algad wrote: post #58

So in a few years, the govt. will get a report at the end of the year showing that model Swede citizen has bought more than the recommended amount of meat or alcohol or, heavens forbid, has bought tobacco products. And not enough fruit/veggies. So the friendly Swede govt. will "recommend" that model Swede citizen fork over an insane amount of money and "optionally" attend re-education classes in healthy living. Can y…

It's not really like that in Sweden. A lot more would have to change in Sweden's national government; public policy, especially with regard to privacy issues, are amongst the best in the world. This doesn't mean a super-fascist regime is impossible in the future. But why would a shift away from paper money bring about the changes you propose?

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#63

Post by niklas_a »

_delirium wrote: post #34
jacobr wrote: post #33

Swede here, and as paranoid as the next person. I moved from Gmail due to privacy concerns. I block a lot of tracking domains at DNS level. However, those are trade-offs with very little negative impact in my daily routines. A slightly worse UI for my email is nothing like moving from cards back to cash. It would be like moving from the Internet back to snail mail because email is insecure, or perhaps to Stallman typ…

I get the convenience for things like paying rent, taxes, etc., but the main reason I don't use credit cards for small things is how much less convenient it is. Much easier to hand over 50 Kr than go through the routine of: gesture to indicate I'm paying with card / make way over to machine at the end of the bar (waiting if someone else is using it) / insert card / enter pin / pause to confirm it went through. Even i…

The downside being that you have very little consumer protection if you buy something that is broken.

I buy everything through my Mastercard credit card. I always pay my bill at the end of the month so I never pay anything extra for it.

It has saved me countless of times when I have ordered stuff online or bought stuff in stores that they have refused to take back. And on top of that I get bonus points that have given me free flights.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#64

Post by hackermom »

tjoff wrote: post #6
Chrono wrote: post #3

As a Swede I am used to always being able to pay with my card; Heading to the bar? No need to withdraw cash. Grabbing a taxi home late at night? No need to worry if you have enough cash, they accept cards. To add to this is that electronic transfer of money to both businesses and private citizens is quick and easy. If you transfer within the same bank it is instant and takes up to a day, depending on the hour, to tra…

As a Swede, I always bring cash. Heading to the bar? Already have cash in the wallet. Grabbing a taxi home late at night? No need to worry that I don't have enough cash on me. Store temporarily only accept cash due to some error? Replace panic with nonexistent queue. Regardless of whether you always pay cash or always pay with a card and regardless of whether you value privacy or not - you should always, in my opnion…

As a Swede, I can't recall the last time I used cash in a normal commercial context - that is, not dealing directly with another private citizen - since I turned 18 and got my debit card 13 years ago. I can't recall the last time I used the magnetic strip either. It's all chip for me, and it's free of charge barring the 25 SEK (~2.5 EUR) per month the bank asks me for my complete account setup.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#65

Post by joejohnson »

A lot of voices in this thread seem concerned about the extra power this would grant the Swedish government. I'm confused: if anything, wouldn't this give the government less control? I'd be more afraid of Visa/MasterCard having a monopoly on simple transactions. Maybe eventually the credit card company's networks will be deemed a public good, and then government will take over the payment processing infrastructure, but until then I think the corporate overlord scenario is much scarier.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#66

Post by hackermom »

itmag wrote: post #45

I haven't noticed this at all, except for the public transportation. If anything, there are plenty of businesses that won't accept cards under a certain limit (usually 100 crowns, or about $15).

The only businesses that don't accept card/chip in Sweden today are the "turk shops" - the shady little corner shops that sell old, dry pick'n'mix candy and stale bread.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#67

Post by mongol »

Swede here. There is a part of the article that warrants special attention:

> The number of bank robberies in Sweden plunged from 110 in 2008 to 16 in 2011 — the lowest level since it started keeping records 30 years ago. It says robberies of security transports are also down.

It was not long ago when armed robberies of security transports were a serious serious problem. Now when the article mentions it, I make a mental note that this has indeed decreased a lot. I think only a few years ago Sweden had lots more robberies of vehicles than the neighbouring countries. There were discussion about arming the guards, but it was argued that would escalate the violence. We have also seen many movie-like heists, the last (widely reported one) was a heist involving explosives, helicopters and sabotage of police helicopters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4stberga_helicopter_robbe...)

I don't know but I assume that decreasing cash usage has been an active decision to combat the armed transport robberies.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#68

Post by justincormack »

patrickgzill wrote: post #50
_delirium wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in Santa Cruz, we had a day-long internet outage due to a fiber-optic cable being cut, which led to most shops not taking CCs, despite there being no trouble with the power. A few mom-and-pop shops did good business by essentially agreeing to take IOUs; they wrote down CC #s on paper and manually ran them later, although afaik that's contrary to most CC companies' policy: http://www.mercurynews.com/centr…

Actually it is still accepted by CC companies to use the old hand operated machines that have a roller, that takes an impression of the card.

Not sure if those are still accepted in Europe; fairly sure they no longer work.

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#69

Post by justincormack »

mjwalshe wrote: post #25
Chrono wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are welcome! :) No really, the card readers are damn quick these days so it hardly takes much longer than paying with cash but I admit that it takes slightly longer. I would argue that most people pay their morning coffee with card in Sweden. I have used my card all over the world, for small and large purchases, and have yet to get it skimmed - lucky I guess. But another aspect of increased card use is that tax f…

At my medium sized local station around 2k people catch trains within 45 mins every morning so cash is much much faster and allows a greater through put of transactions.

We all use smart cards and no one pays at point of transport...

Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more

#70

Post by _delirium »

niklas_a wrote: post #63
_delirium wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the convenience for things like paying rent, taxes, etc., but the main reason I don't use credit cards for small things is how much less convenient it is. Much easier to hand over 50 Kr than go through the routine of: gesture to indicate I'm paying with card / make way over to machine at the end of the bar (waiting if someone else is using it) / insert card / enter pin / pause to confirm it went through. Even i…

The downside being that you have very little consumer protection if you buy something that is broken. I buy everything through my Mastercard credit card. I always pay my bill at the end of the month so I never pay anything extra for it. It has saved me countless of times when I have ordered stuff online or bought stuff in stores that they have refused to take back. And on top of that I get bonus points that have give…

I doubt a credit card is going to do much for me if I receive substandard beer or coffee. :)

I do use credit-cards for purchases of physical items. European cards don't typically give cash-back or bonus points, though.

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