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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#61

Post by bityard »

jzb wrote: post #16
rconti wrote: post #11

> Western society is very much ask culture. I want to push back on this, but since I was raised in the US, I don't feel like I have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it's more ask culture than the Japanese, but I still feel like it's very heavily on the Guess side. This all resonates with me, though, because I haven't grown up saying "no". My parents didn't ask much of me, but it didn't cross my mind to say no to any reques…

I think "western society" is way too broad a brush. Within the U.S. there's extremes between ask and guess, IME. (Some of that is breaking down due to mobility... regional differences are much less pronounced these days, I think, especially in cities, since there's so much cross-pollination.)

Yeah, I feel like the point of the article was to recognize that there are two sides to the framework with strong traits on each end, but that most social interactions do (and should) happen somewhere in the middle. The trouble tends to crop up when two people who both away from the center in opposite directions try to interact. (which can happen even in well-established relationships.)

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#62

Post by wccrawford »

jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

While I was studying Japanese, I learned that they go out of their way to make it so the other person doesn't have to refuse with a "no". For instance, they'll ask, "Do you not have X?" instead of "Do you have X?" The person can answer "Yes, we don't have it" or "It's over here".

I actually made this mistake, asking for a product directly instead of negatively, when I was in Tokyo. The clerk took me to the aisle and said, "If we had it, it'd be here." And there was no space for it. Took me a couple times to realize what had happened.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#63

Post by cogman10 »

v3gas wrote: post #29
chasing wrote: post #10

I don't really care for the "Ask vs. Guess" framing. More like "make demands without considering the other person at all vs. think for a second about not imposing yourself on other people unnecessarily." But mostly this article is about the virtues of being a clear communicator and having decent interpersonal skills, which is neither an "ask" nor a "guess" thing.

You're clearly a Guess :)

No I'm a purple personality with IRWNVDEIS+ tendencies.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#64

Post by jedberg »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's just another name for that. But this article paints high-context as bad and low-context as good, when they're really just different (and opposite ends of a spectrum, not a black or white one or another).

Does it? That's not what I got from the article at all. The author is from a "guess" culture trying to operate in an "ask" culture world. She's adapting, but not because any particular culture is better than the other, but because "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".

Multiple times it mentions that "guess culture" is frustrating and difficult, and that she and her brother prefer ask culture because it's easier.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#65

Post by galangalalgol »

throwanem wrote: post #38
smeej wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

What you're describing is abusive behavior, which is something I would hesitate very strongly to characterize as part of any cultural norm.

It can be more moderate than that. "what is wrong honey?". "Nothing, I'm fine". Which can either mean, no really I'm fine, or if you don't know, you obviously don't care about me, or you know exactly what is wrong and don't pretend otherwise. I've been both parties in that conversation, and over time I have learned that ask culture works better between close friends and family. That doesn't mean I'd consider it abusive though, just a non optimal communication strategy.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#66

Post by samus »

carabiner wrote: post #41
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

That sounds more like urban vs rural. The southerners I've known (Alabama) are pretty blunt about asking for what they want. Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask.

Indeed rural vs. urban is another divide across which such differences are observed. People from big metro areas are usually more blunt than in the surroundings. Probably because people there usually come from diverse backgrounds, but "guess" culture requires the opposite to work.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#67

Post by dahfizz »

mabbo wrote: post #36

> Deciding what to eat for dinner with guess-culture people isn’t as simple as asking people what they want to eat for dinner, because they will not tell you what they actually want to want to eat for dinner. This was nearly a deal-breaking problem early in my relationship with my wife. I am "ask", she is "guess". We just want to figure out what we're going to order for dinner, why on earth is this turning into a fig…

I feel you. Some "guess" people are unable to just state what they want because they think it places a burden on the other person. But keeping your desires hidden creates an even larger burden! Just tell me what you want for dinner!

I play a similar game with my wife. Whenever we have a hard time choosing something, I present 5+ options, and we take turns eliminating one option until only one is left.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#68

Post by throwanem »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #57
throwanem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing is abusive behavior, which is something I would hesitate very strongly to characterize as part of any cultural norm.

Why is that? Don't you think that abuse can become a cultural norm? I don't think we'd have ever come up with money if abuse weren't a common cultural norm. It's pretty much a proxy for "or I'll have my thugs hurt you".

Better put, I'd say that I would hesitate to characterize a cultural preference for either directness or indirectness as akin to the kind of abuse a narcissist deals out to everyone around them.

The argument is easy to construct in either direction, but in no case adds anything of value to the conversation.

Too, claiming that abuse is "just a cultural thing" offers both abusers a convenient excuse for their actions, and everyone who isn't abusive but does share traits of whichever culture an undue indictment.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#69

Post by snapetom »

Wow, this strongly resonates with me, especially the tieback to Asian cultures. I was both told many times, and shown by example many times, that it was rude to put someone in awkward positions. I still carry that to this day in personal relationships, and my wife (white, US-born) doesn't understand why I don't just ask for things from our families/friends, often going to great lengths to avoid questions.

However, at work, I am definitely an "ask" person. I'm in engineer that has spent a lot of time with sales people. "Make them say no" is a mantra I use at work. It's more forward, more aggressive, and American corporate culture, often necessary.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#70

Post by retrac »

jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

That may work relatively well with consumables like food. But it extends in many directions. I have fans and a space heater and extra blankets and etc. All of them are available for a houseguest to use. Many of them are stored in the guest room.

I've had "guess culture" people stay over. Really, in my mind they don't even need to ask. They're already welcome to take an extra blanket. But they won't even ask, and they certainly wouldn't presume. They are indeed waiting on me to say "oh, if you're warm the fan can be plugged in, and there's some extra blankets in the closet if you want". Though in my mind, I don't need to say that. And if I don't say it they may go very uncomfortable.

I'm most used to giving such reassurances to children, and to give them to adults seems a little infantilizing. But that's my relatively "ask culture" background in action, probably.

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