I'd Love to Move, but I Can't • Hacker News Board

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#61

Post by jandrewrogers » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 3:40 PM UTC

brandall10 wrote: post #54

cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

I was slightly offput by this comment "the financial costs of moving (which are high - I've definitely spent hundreds on new drinking glasses alone!)" Who spends hundreds on drinking glasses when they're financially strapped? That mindset percolates outward. I think a good part of this outlook comes from kids who came from upper middle class backgrounds, went to good schools, and expect to repeat the success of their…

This. There is a large segment of the American population that cannot fathom living a life not based on gross consumerism. It is a crippling behavior when you have little income and are just starting out because it prevents you from accumulating the savings required for economic flexibility.

When I was in my 20s and poor, I think the most I ever spent on drinking glasses in total was a few dollars, and I moved many times. I managed to actually save a modest amount of money making terrible wages in an expensive city without a particularly poor lifestyle but I only occasionally spent money on toys that I did not genuinely need. It made it possible for me to bootstrap myself to a very good job and to develop good saving and spending habits.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#62

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 3:43 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

> You can get from pretty much anywhere in the US to anywhere else for under $500.

Unless you need to break the lease on your apartment, which is typically two months' rent - which typically tacks on another $1000, minimum.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#63

Post by jiggy2011 » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 3:46 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #18

tmh88j wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The majority of people do not want to be entrepreneurs so their only option is to work for someone else where you are faced with more external forces. When you're in that situation, most people want to do the minimum and earn the maximum which we know rarely works. Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It'…

Small business (or as call it "cottage industry") was the way many people survived in cities before the industrial revolution hit it stride. I don't believe its beyond the capabilities of mere mortals today to do. What people dislike about entrepreneurship is the search for something to sell to people. On the otherhand, many would prefer working for themselves if it could pay, and they had a clearly defined role to s…

The difference between pre-industrial and now is that you now not only have to find a product/service to sell but you have to find something that the large wallmart style corporations can't do quicker, better and cheaper than you can.

Even small software companies now have the risk of Apple etc completely removing their distribution channel on a whim or a larger software company (or open source project) just replicating their entire product.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#64

Post by jpdoctor » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 3:49 PM UTC

asolove wrote: post #4

tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the id…

> But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents.

I hope they won't make that mistake again, or to quote Twain: Never let your schooling interfere with your education.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#65

Post by infinite8s » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 3:56 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #37

garyrichardson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered for a while now if this whiner generation actually complains about how the world is against them more, or if it's just easier for them to be heard. In particular, I'm thinking social media is the big culprit here. I also would expect some sort of tipping point: "Oh, you can't afford to live in the city because you can't get a job in pharma too? Wow, our generation is having a tough time." I'm 30, own ab…

Get over yourself. It's great that you're 30, have assets and a good life, and have never been unemployed. Huge swaths of the generation you so casually refer to as "whiners" will never have the chance to make those claims regardless of what they do or don't expect from the world, and you scoff at them from your comfortable perch. Let's have some perspective - when kids decide whether and where to go to college, and…

The issue is that in the last generation the age of maturity/critical thinking has gone from early teens to late teens. I find it amazing that 17 year olds have been so isolated from the world that they believe that no matter what they study in college, they can graduate and easily get a high paying job no matter what they studied.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#66

Post by antninja » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 4:00 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

> Get a job. Any job.

There's even more competition for the shitty jobs than for the good/specialized ones.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#67

Post by jdludlow » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 4:01 PM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #41

ctdonath wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have far more safety nets in place than ever - yet people are moving less. We've gotten so used to the notion of safety nets that we're terrified to move away from one lest another not be there - unaware that our predecessors took greater risks, and thus reaped greater rerwards, precisely because there was no safety net. Doesn't help that the paranoia about safety nets results in demands everyone pay for and get p…

As someone from South America, I'm amazed that in the U.S. you're out of health coverage if you're not employed. Other safety nets are counterproductive, though. My country has very high firing costs, which means less jobs, and job security is very highly tied to years in the job, so in my case, leaving my dead-end but decently paid job for a better job is a very significant gamble (I basically give up all my unemplo…

As someone from South America, I'm amazed that in the U.S. you're out of health coverage if you're not employed.

You're not. The tax structure encourages this kind of behavior, but the day I quit my job 5 years ago I started cutting a check for my own health insurance. If people actually looked into the cost of catastrophic coverage with a high deductible (the point of "insurance" in the first place), they'd see that it's not as expensive as they think. It's getting more expensive thanks to government interference, but all insurance is affected similarly.

Pay cash for regular visits. Save money instead of buying toys, and magically you don't fall into the trap of "I have to choose between food and health coverage."

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#68

Post by rwallace » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #5

tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

Telling people to "stop whining" isn't that constructive. I was unemployed about 5 years ago before the recession had really dug it's teeth in and even then it was tough. Spending days applying for every posting I was vaguely qualified for online and also physically hitting the pavement and handing out my CV to every business on the street. Also having to make decisions about whether it was better to get my suit dry-…

I would expect that the parent comment was not addressed to you so much as to the guy who says he can't move because he'd need to spend several hundred dollars on new drinking glasses.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#69

Post by jdludlow » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 4:07 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #61

brandall10 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was slightly offput by this comment "the financial costs of moving (which are high - I've definitely spent hundreds on new drinking glasses alone!)" Who spends hundreds on drinking glasses when they're financially strapped? That mindset percolates outward. I think a good part of this outlook comes from kids who came from upper middle class backgrounds, went to good schools, and expect to repeat the success of their…

This. There is a large segment of the American population that cannot fathom living a life not based on gross consumerism. It is a crippling behavior when you have little income and are just starting out because it prevents you from accumulating the savings required for economic flexibility. When I was in my 20s and poor, I think the most I ever spent on drinking glasses in total was a few dollars, and I moved many t…

Amen.

The trait of rich people that I try to emulate (not always successfully) is that they tend to purchase assets that appreciate in value. Toys are paid for with highly disposable money and not the nest egg.

The trait of poor people that I try to avoid is purchasing depreciating assets, usually on credit ensuring that you'll be poor until that lotto ticket hits big (i.e. forever).

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#70

Post by masonhensley » Fri, Mar 16, 2012, 4:08 PM UTC

drats wrote: post #26

As I see it the baby boomers, rightfully worried about their retirement, are going to camp out in most top positions longer than we expected or was normal in the past. This will inhibit upward mobility of younger people for quite some time (retirement ages are creeping up all across the Western world). Additionally they are demanding loyalty and commitment in the workplace from the younger generation for part-time an…

>from article> Having graduated from a top-10 law program, I'm now making $36,000 a year and have $165,000 worth of student debt.

This is the kind of stuff scares me about the economy moving forward. For those that are not familiar with student loans, one cannot their shed student loans under bankruptcy protection. (I do not think one should be able to back out of a student loan, because unlike a house which can be foreclosed on and resold, it's kinda hard to repossess knowledge and as the loan holder resell it... but moving on) Anyways, in order to get away with not paying them or having your wages garnished, you have to die and that of course has it's own problems. There are programs that are set up to help those having a hard time, but that's not helping the situation in aggregate.

Last year, US students borrowed $100 Billion[1]? The weight of student loans is going to cripple this country over the next 10-20 years. It is unsustainable.

[1]-http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/college/story/2011-10-19...