Live data from Hacker News

Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

thediff.co

61–70 of 179 posts

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#61
post #29

I really don't buy it. There is considerably more interest in google trends for ChatGPT compared to StackOverflow. But I dont see one replacing the other. At least for me. I do not believe the google trend graphs,like "the scariest graph", in this post accurately reflect a decline of SO. There is a place for AI tools and StackOverflow is not the friendliest of places but the quality disparity between the answers you…

Agreed. ChatGPT might overtake StackOverflow, but that first graph does not suggest it, because StackOverflow itself remains constant, it doesn't decline in that graph.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#62
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use chatgpt as a rubber duck who I’m suspicious of. Way too often it just comes up with fictional features

I really don't get this dependence problem. People want information to be 100% accurate? This is the internet -- lies and false claims are the standard. It's up to individuals to corroborate that the info they're looking at is reliable. Google provides a list of relevant results to a keyword search -- every one of those results can be bogus and no one bats an eye. ChatGPT provides text output based on a text input an…

Is entirely possible to hit some search result for a real human had a code hallucination. And to the topic, on stackoverflow that would have been deleted, downvoted or corrected.

GPT will tell you it’s right… well, it’ll apologize, offer another solution that could also be wrong and now you are in a loop.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and I think an issue is how engineers think vs other people. What maybe seen as rude or negative is just an engineer optimizing for efficiency or technical correctness. Other people then tend to take things personally and attach emotion to situations where they are having to be corrected. I have this play out repeatedly in my personal life. I've found I have to simply let people do the wrong things or fail a lit…

"Optimising for efficiency" on a personal/personnel/social level is one of the most common forms of rudeness in every day life. It generally _is_ rudeness.

Only when that appreciation for optimization is not shared between all participants. It is equally correct that someone who is not interested in social minutia is having their time wasted by having it inflicted on them, and this, too, is rude.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#64
post #16

From my experience, interacting with stack overflow and other software related sister communities has always left a bitter taste in my mouth. Ignoring the elephant in the room that I do use SO everyday with some success, but it’s mostly replaced by ChatGPT. The ridiculous (IMHO) moderation under the guise of “we have only one purpose” often didn’t even align with that goal. The writing was on the wall. So many questi…

I'm actually quite shocked going back and looking at old StackOverflow posts. At the time, I was supportive of such brutality, but it is clearly against modern norms regarding what is appropriate internet socialisation.

My take is that SO was born in a time where ethics among the primarily male and tech-fanatical audience of the internet was less developed. At the time, what we now would call toxicity was expected: we thought it was shameful to not ask a question properly, to waste others' time, to not have tried significantly before asking. Now, we have a different view: first, the asker may not be a technical person and may not be someone you would feel comfortable berating; second, even among hardcore tech people there is a much stronger emphasis on appropriate communication and mental health. I remembered stories of my step father giving his subordinates "bollockings" (British term for heavily and aggressively shouting at and disciplining someone who has made a mistake). Well, I work for him now, and he does not do this anymore. Everyone is quite scared of upsetting everyone else, everyone is more aware of the suffering of others, etc.

Somehow, SO has partly retained these aspects of the old internet, when almost all other spaces have shed them.

EDI: You can see the user "rejectfinite" has replied to you with a flagged comment which demonstrates how people still try to act out this kind of toxicity, but note the swiftness of his downvotes and his almost immediate flagging. We just don't tolerate that anymore. But we used to

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#65

Some of my most recent ChatGPT interactions: 34.223.203.0/28 what is the end ip of this range? Write python code to strip out characters that are not alphanumeric or spaces How do make FastAPI not return nulls in the response model when values don't exist? Rewrite this javascript to python Braindead stuff that I would normally lookup on StackOverflow but ChatGPT gives me the actual answer instead of me having to sift…

[flagged]

For many people (maybe even most people) who write code, programming is just a tool. I know a lot of people who program, and it's the least enjoyable, least interesting part of their job. We need to be mindful, and quite careful, not to adopt an attitude of, "if you don't love it, and it's not your passion, stay out and let the "real programmers" do the work."

I absolutely despise painting. But I like doing home renovations myself.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#66

Some of my most recent ChatGPT interactions: 34.223.203.0/28 what is the end ip of this range? Write python code to strip out characters that are not alphanumeric or spaces How do make FastAPI not return nulls in the response model when values don't exist? Rewrite this javascript to python Braindead stuff that I would normally lookup on StackOverflow but ChatGPT gives me the actual answer instead of me having to sift…

[flagged]

Ah, yes — real programmers only work at the assembly level. Forget all this "rising levels of abstraction" nonsense.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#67

Do y'all really use ChatGPT for coding questions? Every time I have tried, the answer I get is entirely wrong, and I end up going back to either first party documentation, or Stack Exchange.

I'm a 56 year-old product marketer who used ChatGPT (plus Midjourney) to build an entire SaaS application and landing page: creatormail.io

I've had some seasoned developers review my (ChatGPT's) Python and got positive feedback with some constructive suggestions.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#68
post #18

ML works well, when it is only trained on correct data. ML trained on all the things ever written about programming is going to get things wrong quite a lot of the time, and you'll only have the context of its reply to you, for you to figure out whether the ML answer is correct. And of course, ML always wants to please you with an answer. SO, on the other hand has accepted answers, and upvoted answers that are easier…

I found it interesting (and kinda worrisome) that some fine-tuned Llama 2 models are trained with GPT-4 generated data. So if GPT-4 got something wrong, the error would propagate to a lot open source models.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#69

Do y'all really use ChatGPT for coding questions? Every time I have tried, the answer I get is entirely wrong, and I end up going back to either first party documentation, or Stack Exchange.

My main use case for GT4 is simple/concise questions for common tooling: namely Docker, Git, Vim (chatting with a robot about Vim during long builds is kinda embarassing now that I think about it), Bash scripting and common Linux utils / config.

I am able to give a lot of information about what I need, and I'm experienced enough to know precisely what to ask for. There's also a huge amount of training data about these tools. I'm also experienced enough to be able to evaluate the output for correctness. I would never ask anything like "write a program in Python for , at this point.

Re: Inside The Decline of Stack Exchange

#70
post #42
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entitled "special" people are a problem everywhere. Dev's who are labeled as high performers get greenfield projects that can be pumped out quickly / look good ... someone else does the maintenance, they get all the flack for an obvious bug that wasn't fixed even if they didn't make it. The random executive who is thought to be highly successful who jumps from department to department spreading his fingerprint long e…

As time goes on, I more and more have the feeling that maintenance is 95% of the value in any software system. A well-designed system at launch is not sufficient to provide sustained value, but competent ongoing maintenance is. Phrased another way, you can sustain value by maintaining a badly designed system but not by not maintaining a well-designed system. Ideally systems are well designed and well maintained but w…

Sometimes they can be well architected to a fault!

I worked on a periphery of a big mainframe system that was designed and implemented before I was born. I think release 1 was in 1975. It still runs really well and is hard to displace because operationally, even though the people who understood it fully are retired or dead, they left behind strong materials so a moderately intelligent person can run everything.

The “other” systems, old .Net, Java, etc that support the interfaces to the old app are hot garbage, and tend to steal the budget dollars that are needed to migrate off the 1970s stuff. My team had to fix one of these… argh.

Post reply on HN