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Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

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Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#61

Post by Groxx »

gabereiser wrote: post #58
Groxx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like it might be conflating stuff like vibrato (human-fast variation in pitch) or even faster. The illusion in the post and on the Wikipedia page involves changing the tone only four times per second , there's no claims at all about both tones blending together or producing only a single note. Both are quite clear about different ears hearing different things, and hearing two or more tones.

I’m referring to the perceived sounds. They aren’t blended together. I’m fully aware of what vibrato is and what the post is talking about in terms of changing tone, half tones, auditory phantoms, trichords, and the octave illusion. The Wikipedia page details the phenomenon with stepping and alternating but it’s not the end of it. Various intervals have been tested. Us musicians have been playing with this for a whil…

This whole thread is about the octave illusion, which is a very specific subset of psychoacoustics, and AFAICT the post accurately summarizes it as:

>There is one octave between the tones. If the alternation is short enough, you will hear the higher tone in one ear and the lower in the other.

No changes. Handedness of sounds that already exist.

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#62

Post by lamp_book »

ugurnot wrote: post #41
monkpit wrote: post #31

First off, I love Daft Punk and I’ve heard all of these song countless times. But, sorry, I don’t buy it. I am aware of the talking piano effect, but even the wiki page [0] says it’s a vocoder, which is something entirely different. Similar to other commenters here [1], I don’t hear the pattern described for the octave effect either. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Rock_(song)https://en.... [1] https://news…

It is not the vocoder but the guitar riff that sounds like robot rock.

The “guitar” is actually a synth with guitar pedals, and yes the effect is from a vocoder. Linked in the wiki: https://web.archive.org/web/20080221104737/http://www.thedaf...

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#63

Post by squeaky-clean »

gizajob wrote: post #10
Groxx wrote: post #4

> Open the song Aerodynamic and fast-forward to 2:28, start listening to the passage. I hear the higher pitch on my right and the lower one on my left ear. What about you? tbh I'm not sure which notes they're referring to here. There are a couple overlapping high/low pairs in that segment, and I'm not sure which is the octave/those frequencies. One seems like higher is more in my left, but it clearly follows the left…

It's the Shepard tone effect running in the background of the actual notes, which produce a mild illusion that they're ascending when they're not, but nevertheless they're moving up and then down in pitches so it's not a brilliant example. I think the author is a little confused in this short essay about a few things. His "talking piano" effect is just standard vocoding, which has made me think this is all fairly new…

I'm pretty sure the blog author is referring to 2 hard panned synths, the sort of plucky one in the right and more smooth one on the left. There's also a 3rd more "nasal" synth voice in the center which is playing the same pattern with the high/low notes inverted except for the quicker 4 note run that happens on the 4th count of every bar, where it synchronizes again. I don't think it's octave effect, but it produces a similar result and all 3 synths seem to occupy their own separate frequency space while also sounding like one unit.

This article has a decent recreation of the left and right synths in Aerodynamic. It does not include the center sound though.

https://reverbmachine.com/blog/daft-punk-discovery-synth-sou...

There is no shephard tone running in the background, that's a phaser effect running over an otherwise plain pad playing chords.

You can hear from 2:52 to 2:55 it's descending and from 2:56 to 2:59 it's rising. Descending again at 3:00 to 3:03 and etc.

Here's a video of someone replicating that phaser fx tone very well. Though they use it in the guitar solo. Listen to the resonant sweep that seems to be in the background, it's a phaser on the guitar.

https://youtu.be/eN5LWM2b6co

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#64

Post by squeaky-clean »

adamrezich wrote: post #3

for the Robot Rock one, the author should've clarified that it's not referring to the actual `rock. robot rock` voice part, but the part where the guitar chords sound like that . skip to about 1:50 in the linked video to hear the robot voice, then listen to how similar just the guitar chords after 2:00 sound like the robot voice saying `rock. robot rock.`

I would bet money there's still a vocoded guitar in that section, but about 18db below the regular guitar. It also sounds like they're running it through a resonant filter, probably their MS-20, which is probably helping the formants sound like it's speaking compared to a regular guitar.

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#65

Post by nerf0 »

I want to make this random off-topic comment: For years I've been collecting various audio clips, where "environmental" sound (voice, noise, etc.) transitions into music, or vise versa, in songs, movies and TV shows. I've searched the web and the closest term I can find is "diegetic switch", but not quite. Here's the (short) list:

- https://youtu.be/9j9bVl3rfNk?t=29 In The Defenders, repeated piano note transitions into background music.

- https://youtu.be/isZyX1xd1VQ?t=159 (The Great American Nightmare - Rob Zombie)

- https://youtu.be/pU_mZ1X69Ho?t=364 (Out of Control - Miraculix)

- Justice League the movie where the song "Everybody Knows" transitions into the ambulance siren. Sorry I can't find this footage.

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#66

Post by jcims »

nerf0 wrote: post #65

I want to make this random off-topic comment: For years I've been collecting various audio clips, where "environmental" sound (voice, noise, etc.) transitions into music, or vise versa, in songs, movies and TV shows. I've searched the web and the closest term I can find is "diegetic switch", but not quite. Here's the (short) list: - https://youtu.be/9j9bVl3rfNk?t=29 In The Defenders, repeated piano note transitions i…

I don’t know if this counts but it’s one of my all time favorites.

- https://youtu.be/IXdNnw99-Ic (Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd)

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#67

Post by HenryMulligan »

samstave wrote: post #55
SpaceNugget wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't hear radio stations, you might want to get your antenna checked. But I get the same sounds when I am laying in bed before I fall asleep and they also coincide with twitches or flinches and sometimes visual flashes.

EDIT: I said "radio station" only because thats what most would recognize... its not a radio station its just a really really faint sound of music playing - like jazz or something. its too dim to make out. ALSO - eveyone should checkout mynoise.net --- Yes! This literally usally happens right on the cusp of falling asleep... I equated it to what I had read a long time ago that "in order for one to fall asleep the bod…

The twitch right as you are falling asleep is known as a hypnic jerk. The flash of light may be related to exploding head syndrome. The faint "music" could be tinnitus, some electric device (speakers, guitar amp, etc.) picking up an AM or shortwave radio station, or just your brain making up (or playing back) music as you drift off to sleep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_head_syndrome

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#68

Post by Applejinx »

gizajob wrote: post #10
Groxx wrote: post #4

> Open the song Aerodynamic and fast-forward to 2:28, start listening to the passage. I hear the higher pitch on my right and the lower one on my left ear. What about you? tbh I'm not sure which notes they're referring to here. There are a couple overlapping high/low pairs in that segment, and I'm not sure which is the octave/those frequencies. One seems like higher is more in my left, but it clearly follows the left…

It's the Shepard tone effect running in the background of the actual notes, which produce a mild illusion that they're ascending when they're not, but nevertheless they're moving up and then down in pitches so it's not a brilliant example. I think the author is a little confused in this short essay about a few things. His "talking piano" effect is just standard vocoding, which has made me think this is all fairly new…

Yup. The Daft Punk 'Robot Rock' is a straight up vocoder (mind you, a cool effect!). I like your link, now that's a talking piano :)

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#69

Post by [deleted] »

ilyt wrote: post #45
Groxx wrote: post #4

> Open the song Aerodynamic and fast-forward to 2:28, start listening to the passage. I hear the higher pitch on my right and the lower one on my left ear. What about you? tbh I'm not sure which notes they're referring to here. There are a couple overlapping high/low pairs in that segment, and I'm not sure which is the octave/those frequencies. One seems like higher is more in my left, but it clearly follows the left…

Same for me, just hearing the high tone bouncing around Here is better video for that illusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMsK9rjBWo I've heard of an effect where brain synthesises lower tone from the higher harmonics, might that be reason why I hear the low tone in both ears at once?

[deleted]

Re: Auditory illusions with examples from Daft Punk

#70

Post by v64 »

metamet wrote: post #48
v64 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens all the time. Most common one for me is when you're making a patch on a synth and by chance dial in those frequencies that align with formants (similar to the Robot Rock effect the post mentions). Yesterday I was working on a bass drum beat, and after adding some synths playing on top of it, I started to hear the bass drum echo. So, my first thought was I had accidentally enabled some kind of reverb or echo e…

I always wonder if it's some odd thing going on in the DAW. Would you be willing to export that track as two tracks--one with drums and one with synth? Then listen to them solo, then run them together (with WAV files instead of instrumentation)? Would be neat to have that illusion confirmed rather than it being a DAW artifact.

My setup's DAWless (this was two synths and a drum machine plugged directly into a mixer that was outputting to speakers) and I didn't end up making any records of this session, so I can't provide WAVs, but I can rule out DAW artifacts :)
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