eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive • Hacker News Board

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#61

Post by nextos » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:48 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #23

First this is a great idea. Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better. I haven't used the feature, but from reading the blog post it is sad to see how poorly Google executes on products, even at the beta stage. Some context: I've built such a product before and eSigs are more simple than they seem as long as you do a few things. 1) You need to verify somebody's identity. Sending them an email with t…

> Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better.

Recently, they have also improved the UI on Google Docs and Gmail making it much less laggy.

On my old NUC computer, it makes a big difference.

It seems that middle-management is becoming a bit less sclerotic.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#62

Post by noodlesUK » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:48 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #23

First this is a great idea. Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better. I haven't used the feature, but from reading the blog post it is sad to see how poorly Google executes on products, even at the beta stage. Some context: I've built such a product before and eSigs are more simple than they seem as long as you do a few things. 1) You need to verify somebody's identity. Sending them an email with t…

In Europe, including the UK and EEA, there is the eIDAS regulation, which outlines the requirement for eSignatures (amongst other things).

In order for a signature to be recognised, it has to meet one of three trust levels

1. Electronic signature: this is basically something that puts a distinguishing mark on a file.

2. Advanced electronic signature: these use cryptography according to the specifications set out in the regulation, but anyone can make them. There are some requirements about how a person’s identity is linked to their signature.

3. Qualified electronic signature: these are advanced electronic signatures which have been produced with a recognised trust service provider. Each country has a list of trust service providers, and each other country mutually recognises their trust lists.

It is a bit more detailed than that, but in general, simple transactions can pretty much use any electronic signature (but this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The uk generally doesn’t need anything fancier than docusign). In order for something to be completely watertight, it needs to be a qualifying electronic signature.

In order for these features to be useful in Europe, google will need to meet the requirements of the regulations, and specify a trust level.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#63

Post by duringmath » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:51 PM UTC

codetrotter wrote: post #60

duringmath wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I was pointing out that not every app/service has to be preserved and supported forever.

> Anyway, just thought that whipping out "Google kills products" meme for a mere feature was a bit much. I know I’m beating a dead horse^W^W^W dead Google products but, they really do kill a lot of popular products https://killedbygoogle.com/ That being said, if they add eSig for Google Docs I agree; I don’t see why nor how they’d kill that individual feature unless they kill Docs all-together. Which, hopefully, they…

Some popular products,sure.

Much of the listed "casualties" were throwaway wrapper apps that have perfectly fine webapp replacements, apps for platforms that no longer exist, duplicates, and stand alone apps that are now features of bigger apps etc.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#64

Post by ew » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 7:53 PM UTC

We attempted to create this last year with https://pleasesign.me. Definitely a case of waiting too long on a good idea. Ah well, it still has some features Google might not launch :)

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#65

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:02 PM UTC

noodlesUK wrote: post #62

danielrhodes wrote: post #23

First this is a great idea. Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better. I haven't used the feature, but from reading the blog post it is sad to see how poorly Google executes on products, even at the beta stage. Some context: I've built such a product before and eSigs are more simple than they seem as long as you do a few things. 1) You need to verify somebody's identity. Sending them an email with t…

In Europe, including the UK and EEA, there is the eIDAS regulation, which outlines the requirement for eSignatures (amongst other things). In order for a signature to be recognised, it has to meet one of three trust levels 1. Electronic signature: this is basically something that puts a distinguishing mark on a file. 2. Advanced electronic signature: these use cryptography according to the specifications set out in t…

This isn't the case for most agreements. Most agreements have no 'form' requirements - ie. you could write it on a napkin at a restaurant. As long as both parties believe they are making a legally binding agreement, then they have made a legally binding agreement.

Use of technology doesn't change that. The only time a court would throw out a signature made online is if the online platform was somehow deceiving the parties - for example by showing different text to each side when they click 'i agree'.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#66

Post by danielrhodes » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:04 PM UTC

noodlesUK wrote: post #62

danielrhodes wrote: post #23

First this is a great idea. Finally there is some movement on making Google Docs better. I haven't used the feature, but from reading the blog post it is sad to see how poorly Google executes on products, even at the beta stage. Some context: I've built such a product before and eSigs are more simple than they seem as long as you do a few things. 1) You need to verify somebody's identity. Sending them an email with t…

In Europe, including the UK and EEA, there is the eIDAS regulation, which outlines the requirement for eSignatures (amongst other things). In order for a signature to be recognised, it has to meet one of three trust levels 1. Electronic signature: this is basically something that puts a distinguishing mark on a file. 2. Advanced electronic signature: these use cryptography according to the specifications set out in t…

Ultimately where this matters is if one party contests the validity of a contract. I'm not sure how it works in the EU, but in the US that would mean a court would ultimately make that decision. To that end, they could decide that two people agreeing in an email thread is enough. It's all about your risk appetite.

However, notice that Google has not said they are compliant with any regulation.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#67

Post by delecti » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:04 PM UTC

codetrotter wrote: post #60

duringmath wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I was pointing out that not every app/service has to be preserved and supported forever.

> Anyway, just thought that whipping out "Google kills products" meme for a mere feature was a bit much. I know I’m beating a dead horse^W^W^W dead Google products but, they really do kill a lot of popular products https://killedbygoogle.com/ That being said, if they add eSig for Google Docs I agree; I don’t see why nor how they’d kill that individual feature unless they kill Docs all-together. Which, hopefully, they…

A great many of their killed products ended up being merged/evolved into other ones (Duo into Meet). A great many more weren't even "killed"; over the past 20 years their in-gmail chat program has evolved from Talk to Hangouts, and then from Hangouts to Chat. It has kept the same chat history throughout the past 20 years, but "killed by google" lists Talk and Hangouts as two killed products.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#68

Post by dexterdog » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:08 PM UTC

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #18

No pricing === you are the product

With google you are the product whether you pay or not. Some of their most valuable data comes from the companies who use google for all of their email, calendar and documents.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#69

Post by Waterluvian » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:10 PM UTC

As long as this doesn’t pretend like a signature is a cryptographic tool, I’m generally a fan of doing away with nonsense like Docusign.

Re: eSignature Beta for Google Docs and Google Drive

#70

Post by btown » Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 8:23 PM UTC

rvnx wrote: post #39

notfried wrote: post #2

14 months in testing, followed by a beta, is really moving too slow.

14 months in testing, 0 support of eIDAS, the main electronic signature regulation and platform in Europe.

Given that there are entire research papers titled things like "Analysing the impact of the GDPR on eIDAS" I'm not surprised that they launched without support...