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We are all animals at night

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Re: We are all animals at night

#61

Post by whimsicalism »

ilaksh wrote: post #6
hengheng wrote: post #4

Great writing! Seriously this is good stuff. For anybody that struggles with the length and slow-paced nature of this genre -- this is hackernews after all -- I had a much easier time imagining this as a radio piece. The writing style is very melodic, like it's meant to be read out loud. The noises of the city, the description of light and temperature, all made it feel very alive. Something to absorb in a very sensua…

It's not a long article or slow-paced. It literally intersperses POV scenes from a brothel. If that can't at least hold your attention for a few pages, nothing will. I suggest that people read a few novels if they think this article is too long.

Try to call in. I am an avid reader, but I also know that lots of people really struggle with long-form reading, can feel insecure about this even though they are likely in the majority, and react with defensiveness and pride to rhetoric like this.

Emphasizing the beauty and value of reading imo is much more important if the goal is to encourage longer form reading, which can be a learned skill.

Re: We are all animals at night

#62

Post by avidiax »

CPLX wrote: post #17
rainworld wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit of…

Can you explain why the trade she describes is regulated the way it is that doesn’t involve traditions and superstitions around power and sex?

Monogamy as a norm is about stability.

Without it, what would tend to happen is that many more men would have no wives and families. Which means they have relatively little to lose. Which could tend to make your society unstable, since these men have little reason not to flip alliances, revolt, defect, etc.

Hence laws and consequences for adultery, prohibition of an open market for non-monogamous sex, etc.

The traditions and superstitions are just the implementation of the idea.

Re: We are all animals at night

#63

Post by darkclouds »

lancesells wrote: post #5

> What do you need if you’re out seeking services at night? Food, sex, shelter. This really encapsulates what all humans want and need. Food, sex & love, shelter & clothing. With only those three things you can live a happy life. Everything else is really to satisfy a desire for novelty and experience.

> Food, sex & love, shelter & clothing. With only those three things you can live a happy life.

On the surface I think most would agree, but I think you need trust in a relationship.

If your job or parents job moves you around, it becomes harder to lay down roots it gets harder to trust people in anything other than a superficial way.

Friendships become a thing of the past.

People end up becoming divided, but pre-internet this was standard practice employed by the UK govt, in the name of science and law & order.

I'd be happy to spend the end of my life on my own now, ideally I'd even like a sort of drive-thru euthanasia service, where when you decide, not somebody else like doctors, politicians, scientists or religious freaks, where you can bowl up to an incinerating crematorium, pay a fee (because only a capitalist society would charge you to end your life in a painfree manner), optionally leave some beyond the grave messages, inject myself and end my life, body removed from the room, incinerated and the waste disposed of in the bin.

Its the last act of self determination and autonomy any intelligent person could hope to have imo.

Nobody gets their life back that's stolen by people in authority like parents, teachers, employers, politicians, scientists, lawyers and judges or superstitious types.

Todays society, which everyone is in denial over, is the fact they are nothing more than the property of the entities that ultimately control society.

If its any consolation, life can leave you feeling numb enough to make suicide a viable option whilst the criminals that run the world, get fat off the land.

So I can relate to the article.

Re: We are all animals at night

#64

Post by [deleted] »

morelisp wrote: post #49
ACow_Adonis wrote: post #40

I feel like I'm missing some cultural context here that made this a semi- difficult read: obviously? the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? but can someone explain to me exactly what the nature of the arrangement/work/ business she's working in is? is it just prostitution and for some reason they don't call it that in Canad…

> the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? I'm genuinely curious where you live that this is not the case. It is such a euphemism in every Anglophone country, and (large parts of?) Germany and Italy. It is usually illegal (or at least unlicensed) even in places where prostitution has some kind of legal status.

[deleted]

Re: We are all animals at night

#65

Post by SamPatt »

kanbara wrote: post #20
rainworld wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit of…

i actually agree with this sentiment quite strongly. part of the reason gender identity and dysphoria, queerness, and fluid gender roles are so despised by conservatives and religious fellows, especially when it comes to masculinity, is that it threatens the dominant power structure of the last few thousand years. sex work, and women’s empowerment is especially looked down upon. what else is labour but selling your b…

Many of the strongest opponents of sex work are women.

I can't speak for the commenter you're responding to, but the delusional part of that quote for me was the idea that men opposed sex work because women earn a lot of money.

I'm not conservative, but I was raised in that world, and I can assure you they believe sex is only acceptable within marriage. The vast majority of them would absolutely support a successful businesswoman who earned her money through any moral means.

Re: We are all animals at night

#66

Post by whimsicalism »

xcxcx wrote: post #23
kanbara wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i actually agree with this sentiment quite strongly. part of the reason gender identity and dysphoria, queerness, and fluid gender roles are so despised by conservatives and religious fellows, especially when it comes to masculinity, is that it threatens the dominant power structure of the last few thousand years. sex work, and women’s empowerment is especially looked down upon. what else is labour but selling your b…

The "dominant power structure" of the last few N centuries broadly consisted of nations of European origin enslaving and trading others in Asia, Africa, and the Americas, plenty of which under the rule of people such as Queen Victoria. It had more to do with military differential than with gender, but now they must change the rhetoric with these discussions because wide availability of historical facts and global dem…

Quibbles aside, it seems undeniable that there has existed a power relationship between men and women that likely had much more impact on people’s day to day lives than the macro-scale power structures you are describing. Nevermind the fact that it is arguable that the gender dynamics were to some degree productive of the colonialism you are describing.

I don’t really get the point of your comment except insofar as the standard HN “well actually” putdown of anything resembling feminist rhetoric.

Re: We are all animals at night

#67

Post by xcxcx »

whimsicalism wrote: post #66
xcxcx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "dominant power structure" of the last few N centuries broadly consisted of nations of European origin enslaving and trading others in Asia, Africa, and the Americas, plenty of which under the rule of people such as Queen Victoria. It had more to do with military differential than with gender, but now they must change the rhetoric with these discussions because wide availability of historical facts and global dem…

Quibbles aside, it seems undeniable that there has existed a power relationship between men and women that likely had much more impact on people’s day to day lives than the macro-scale power structures you are describing. Nevermind the fact that it is arguable that the gender dynamics were to some degree productive of the colonialism you are describing. I don’t really get the point of your comment except insofar as t…

I see. I must have been mistaken then because I've always assumed the gap between a Dutch man and a Dutch woman was narrower than that between a Dutch man and a Bantu man

Re: We are all animals at night

#68

Post by whimsicalism »

xcxcx wrote: post #67
whimsicalism wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quibbles aside, it seems undeniable that there has existed a power relationship between men and women that likely had much more impact on people’s day to day lives than the macro-scale power structures you are describing. Nevermind the fact that it is arguable that the gender dynamics were to some degree productive of the colonialism you are describing. I don’t really get the point of your comment except insofar as t…

I see. I must have been mistaken then because I've always assumed the gap between a Dutch man and a Dutch woman was narrower than that between a Dutch man and a Bantu man

Clearly, these are all tied up together. The gap between a Dutch man and a Bantu man was not merely defined by colonialism, as you well know. And gender relations defined each of those peoples day to day life far more than interactions with representatives of each other.

But I still do not know the point of your comment. Is it to suggest that gender relations was not a big factor in the past?

Re: We are all animals at night

#69

Post by throwanem »

> I felt little of the camaraderie I once did while working night shifts. I’m unsure why I felt this dissonance, and it occurs to me now that it could have been more self-imposed than anything.

I doubt it. I've worked days and nights at different times in the same place, at a couple of jobs in different parts of the country. There's a real difference between what people are like in the daytime and nighttime worlds, and between people who are at home in the latter and those who are just visiting.

I don't really miss it. But I do kinda miss it.

Re: We are all animals at night

#70

Post by xcxcx »

whimsicalism wrote: post #68
xcxcx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. I must have been mistaken then because I've always assumed the gap between a Dutch man and a Dutch woman was narrower than that between a Dutch man and a Bantu man

Clearly, these are all tied up together. The gap between a Dutch man and a Bantu man was not merely defined by colonialism, as you well know. And gender relations defined each of those peoples day to day life far more than interactions with representatives of each other. But I still do not know the point of your comment. Is it to suggest that gender relations was not a big factor in the past?

The point of my comment is that it's almost as if we weren't constantly bombarded by how unfair current men are to women, we would start reflecting about these inconvenient legacies instead
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