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“Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

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Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#61

Post by fsniper »

thewataccount wrote: post #29
mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

> Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. What happens when Firefox refuses to implement WEI - then start to require it? If WEI becomes a common requirement then Firefox will effectively be forced to implement it or it won't be usable as a web browser at that point for the average consumer

Or Firefox and other browsers against WEI gain a significant userbase that these websites can't use WEI to discriminate.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#62

Post by UtopiaPunk »

geraldwhen wrote: post #24
mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

Mozilla is a political organization, not a web browser developer. I’ll keep using brave.

If Mozilla is a "politcal organization," their whole politics is centered on how to shape the web. And, idk, having a strong position on such ideas seems pretty damn relevant to this conversation.

Using "political" like a slur is childish and naive.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#63

Post by indymike »

input_sh wrote: post #48
theandrewbailey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We are a fork, have been all along" https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1684561924191842304

...and then you click on that GitHub link and it explains that they fetch the Chromium codebase and then apply a set of patches on top of it. I wouldn't diminish that work by refering to it as just a reskin, but it's also not what I have in mind when I hear about something being forked. They don't maintain a separate Chromium codebase, nor do they refer to it as a fork anywhere on GitHub. They do refer to it as a cus…

> I wouldn't diminish that work by refering to it as just a reskin, but it's also not what I have in mind when I hear about something being forked.

If the goal is to maintain compatibility with what you've forked, there are not a lot of other ways to do what Brave is doing... when you do the classic fork, the code tends to diverge and compatibility decays.

> I also think of Chrome as a customised Chromium, not a fork of Chromium.

I've started viewing Chromium based browsers as distributions instead of forks.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#64

Post by TheCoelacanth »

Melatonic wrote: post #14
mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

Honestly modern Firefox works better than Chrome for me at everything - better memory management - faster loading times - better extension support.

There is only one set of site where Chrome performs better than Firefox: sites made by Google. I can't help but assume that it's intentional.

Unfortunately, for many people those are very important sites.

The Internet desperately needs some government to step in and force Google to spin off Chrome as an independent company. It's the only hope we have of stopping Google from completely ruining the Internet.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#65

Post by mrd3v0 »

geraldwhen wrote: post #24
mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

Mozilla is a political organization, not a web browser developer. I’ll keep using brave.

Really? Mozilla is a political organisation and Brave, the very same organisation that hires a fired Mozilla CEO that publicly opposes same-sex marriage, is not a political organisation?

Cool.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jsnell wrote: post #33
sircastor wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mean to be an apologist here, but Google’s vs Apple’s intention seem crystal clear. Google is trying to make it impossible not to see the ads it’s selling. Apple’s intent seems to be lock down the Apple platform…? I know Apple is blatantly abusive in lots of spaces, but Chrome is a super-majority of the browsers in use. It’s an odd take to spin this into “they started it” finger pointing. The reason Chrome is…

The stated goal of both is the same: to provide a privacy-preserving primitive for anti-abuse. Both explicitly state that the goal is not to exclude competing browsers or operating systems or to limit things like browser features or extensions. You're just assuming that they're both lying about the motives, and making up the worst possible motives you can think of for each. I think in both cases you're wrong, and the…

[deleted]

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#67

Post by m463 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

don't add the code.

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#68

Post by CamJN »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #28
Melatonic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly modern Firefox works better than Chrome for me at everything - better memory management - faster loading times - better extension support.

On Linux the one area where I feel (nothing scientific) that Chrome is faster is for JavaScript code execution. But I still use Firefox instead of Chrome.

I mean, chrome is the slowest js engine at the moment: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perfherder/graphs?timerange=3...

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#69

Post by antisthenes »

JeremyNT wrote: post #54
thewataccount wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. What happens when Firefox refuses to implement WEI - then start to require it? If WEI becomes a common requirement then Firefox will effectively be forced to implement it or it won't be usable as a web browser at that point for the average consumer

Sure, this is what it looks like if/when we've fully lost the fight. Those of us who currently recommend Firefox are hoping that there's still enough time to do something about this. Maybe it's already too late, but you might as well try, you know?

Firefox is The fight was lost long ago, several times (once when they decided to throw out thousands of developer work years by gimping all the addons)

Re: “Web Environment Integrity”: Locking Down the Web

#70

Post by CamJN »

geraldwhen wrote: post #24
mrguyorama wrote: post #10

What is Brave going to do when the code for WEI becomes load bearing in the chromium code base? Still excuse after excuse after excuse to just not use Firefox. I literally don't care if you have to hold up your nose, there's only one actual alternative browser engine, and it's a matter of survival for anyone who doesn't want the whole internet controlled by google. It could be half as fast (it isn't) and use twice as…

Mozilla is a political organization, not a web browser developer. I’ll keep using brave.

Brave is a man-child’s tantrum that he had to face the consequences of being a bigot.
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