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Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

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Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#61

Post by isk517 »

unglaublich wrote: post #19
2023throwawayy wrote: post #4

> The survey equates the displeasure of shifting from a flexible work model to a traditional one to that of experiencing a 2-3% pay cut. I think they forgot a 0.

Yes, this doesn't add up. The typical 2x20 mins daily commute is effectively an 8% unpaid increase in working hours, not counting transportation costs.

There isn't anything to add. They surveyed people and found that people dislike switching from having a flexible schedule to a traditional one as much as experiencing a 2-3% pay cut. Through I agree, if most people did do a bit of math they would realize they should be significantly more upset.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#62

Post by darth_avocado »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #26

Seems more nuanced than this discussion is making it out. We have had attrition and recruiting challenges with RTO, but also noticeable improvements in morale and productivity - especially when it comes to onboarding new folks.

RTO morale highs are temporary, attrition morale lows are permanent.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#63

Post by FredPret »

underseacables wrote: post #16

I understand why businesses want us to return to office, and cannot disagree that I would likely react the same way. However returning to the office has numerous additional costs that are very much avoidable. I have to go to the office once a week. That’s a week do gas, time, money, pollution, and using resources and space that is duplicative.

Here’s the thing with commercial leases. They go on for years at a time and cost a very large amount.

So some companies are locked into their office leases and stupidly think not having people there is a waste of that money when it’s a sunk cost and has already been wasted.

But for companies without an office, it’s a massive saving.

So in the long run, cubicle-minded managers will go out of business, and get outcompeted by their younger and more modern replacements.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#64

Post by anilakar »

Business practices evolved but the office space did not. Our open floor plan was still somewhat reasonable pre-2020 with a few quiet software developers around. Now it has been turned into a shared video conference space and thanks to the company growing there are no longer dedicated desks.

As if business practices changing the requirements was not bad enough, half of the floor has been taken over by the provisioning, shipping & tech support team, but that's more of an issue with the building management refusing to rent us more space in this specific case.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#65

Post by andrewaylett »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #30
obnauticus wrote: post #9

It is unclear who wants RTO, at least within tech and other leaders whom I know within tech.

I prefer RTO and being in the office with the entire team. That doesn't make me crazy, and I know several others on my team feel the same way.

I don't mind occasionally being in the office with my entire team. The problem is that my team is split across three offices in different cities.

We have folk who prefer to work from the office, and that's fine. But it makes team meetings more challenging than they are when everyone's at home.

When we were only spread across two offices, we'd occasionally have a team day in one or other of the offices. But the third office is much further away.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#66

Post by mistrial9 »

pc86 wrote: post #41
stuckinhell wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The younger generations would sabotage us from within if we tried this. We've already had a couple "silent" rebellions from "zoomers" and even "millenials". It's astounding not worth the risk for my firm except for certain teams.

I'm not sure what "'silent' rebellions" you're referring to. The only one I can think of is "silent quitting" which isn't quitting so much as it is not being willingly taken advantage of by working unpaid hours or doing unpaid work.

don't forget unpaid interns

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#67

Post by pc86 »

gottorf wrote: post #3

Of course it's too early to tell with lots of confounding variables, but labor productivity has been taking a steep dive[0]. So perhaps in the aggregate, WFH is resulting in less work being done. I say this as someone who's been full-time WFH for over a decade; I'm not taking a position one way or another. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MPU4910063

Here is the same chart showing an absolute value instead of percentage change. Not quite as steep of a dive - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=17uvX - in fact, nothing that could be considered a "dive" by any reasonable person.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#68

Post by giraffe_lady »

warning26 wrote: post #14
obnauticus wrote: post #9

It is unclear who wants RTO, at least within tech and other leaders whom I know within tech.

Some people do and some people don’t. It seems to me it’s largely a matter of personal preference. I worked from home before the pandemic, hated it, and vowed to never do it again. Then the pandemic happened.

I worked remote for a year before the pandemic for health reasons and didn't like it much, was looking forward to going back.

The pandemic was a huge rearrangement to so many things though. It forced through a lot of the accommodations that previously I had to beg and fight for. Got everyone used to having to write more, have video option for all meetings, train judgement about what can be async etc.

It also normalized the lunch errand, the early dinner then back at work, the "I might just be away from the computer when you message me" dynamic that makes remote work genuinely fulfilling. I no longer feel like I'm committing a moral transgression against my coworkers by stopping to help a family member with a chore or whatever.

I once said I would never willingly do remote. Now I say I'll never willingly work from an office regularly. I might turn out to be as wrong about this as I was about that, we'll see.

Re: Damaging results of mandated return to the office: it’s worse than we thought

#70

Post by anilakar »

cwkoss wrote: post #2

Commercial real estate value is a bubble that's gonna pop soon. There's just way more office space than anyone needs.

Our office building management is giving half a month free for new referrals; meanwhile they are refusing to rent us more floor space.
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