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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

ft.com

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#61

Post by mutatio »

mlyle wrote: post #48
mutatio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well only even the most pious remainers would accept the Euro as a currency and removing fiscal sovereignty, so it's a total non-starter. The special treatment for the old guard (German automotive, French farming industries) also needs to be expunged.

> would accept the Euro as a currency I don't know why this keeps coming up-- joining the EU does not require adopting the Euro.

Because domestic UK politics wouldn't allow this to pass on technicalities, I mean haven't you learned anything from the build up to Brexit? It would have to be explicit to be palatable, not some technicality that we effectively want to play ball on the Euro, but never really do... Hell, even from the EU side I'd want a honest decision, not political illusion.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#62

Post by scott_w »

nprateem wrote: post #26
scott_w wrote: post #21

I’ve only read half the article and stopped because it seems the author is hopelessly ignorant about some basic facts: - The EU won’t start the process to admit the UK until joining is politically settled - Until the Tory party is also onboard with rejoining, it can’t be politically settled - The Tory party will only get onboard when it’s no longer possible to win power without wanting to rejoin - Despite there being…

Sources for the last 2 claims? Labour are doing what any good politicians do and are avoiding a divisive issue to try to appeal to both sides.

The “source” is the fact Labour are not talking about rejoining. We don’t have access to their internal polling, for obvious reasons, but they clearly believe in this strategy and the 20pt lead in the polls suggests they’re right to.

EDIT: I missed the source for the polls. This YouGov poll shows a big “Don’t know” block which is completely missing from the news reports.

Poll: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/0...

Sample report: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who...

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#63

Post by mpweiher »

mutatio wrote: post #6
edvards wrote: post #3

If the UK proves itself to be a partner that doesn't want special treatment like before, it sure can be welcomed back by the EU, and if anything it coming back will only strengthen the union by showing that leaving it was considered a mistake in the end. But I still feel skeptical regarding Brits and British politicians actually being ready to accept the fact they're not special and that they will not have special tr…

Well only even the most pious remainers would accept the Euro as a currency and removing fiscal sovereignty, so it's a total non-starter. The special treatment for the old guard (German automotive, French farming industries) also needs to be expunged.

"60 per cent of Britons now think Brexit was the wrong decision and would vote to rejoin the EU at a second referendum"

Do you think these 60% are unaware that there would be no special deals? And it's 79% of young voters, so even just the demographics will only shift this further, in addition to the ever more obvious data showing just how disastrous Brexit has been, that all the claims were lies.

And what special treatment does the German automative industry get?

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#64

Post by pasttense01 »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #54
rst wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a second referendum held once the terms of the actual withdrawal deal were known, and fell far short of the Leave campaign's promises of, in effect, retaining all the benefits of membership. The EU was still declaring at that point that were the UK Parliament to vote to end the Article 50 process and retain membership, they'd be willing to forget the whole thing.

>Or a second referendum held once the terms of the actual withdrawal deal were known Exactly, nobody voting for Brexit even knew what they were voting for! Many just had some nebulous, fantastical idea of independence from some "evil" organisation in Brussels.

Actually a lot of politicians and media were talking about something like the EFTA (Norway, etc) arrangement with the EU--and this is what a lot of voters wanted. So they ended up with something vastly different from what they wanted [and would have voted Remain if they had known what the final result was going to be.]

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#65

Post by mutatio »

sys_64738 wrote: post #19

General de Gaulle was right in the 60s that the brits are more trouble than they're worth. France is smart and won't let them back in. Brexit is now and forever as far as the EU is concerned.

The guy who famously received safety for himself and his family in Britain during the war, what a thanks indeed... Believe it or not I've heard this anecdote told as a projection of anti-European sentiment, have you considered what might have been for the Anglo-European relationship had he not felt France was the centre of the European project and portrayed the UK this way?

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#66

Post by mpweiher »

rightontarget wrote: post #30

FT and other media struggle to accept the results of democratic processes

1. The referendum wasn't actually democratic.

2. The obligations that people read into the referendum (incorrectly, but whatever) have been discharged: Brexit happened. That is the past.

3. Democracy is not "One man, one vote, one time". New majorities mean new democratic mandates. Time moves on.

4. And these majorities are much, much larger than ~ 52:48 majority for Brexit. A split that, had it gone for remain, Nigel Farage said would have meant "unfinished business".

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#67

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

blibble wrote: post #10

remember: the FT have managed to mis-predict every single major UK political event relating to brexit: - they'll vote remain - they'll ignore the referendum result - they won't invoke article 50 - the article 50 court case will prevent it being triggered - we won't exit - we'll stay in the single market they simply have no understanding of how the electorate think (though I suppose it's possible they may eventually g…

To be fair, they're a business paper and from an economic perspective Brexit made absolutely no sense, so it's not that surprising.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#68

Post by x86x87 »

bbg2401 wrote: post #57
x86x87 wrote: post #25

Coulda woulda shoulda They fucked around and now they are in the finding out phase. There is no way the EU will allow them to continue with their jackasseries. If you want back in apply like a new state and accept the shit conditions new members have to accept. You're not special. You're a shadow of a former great empire and your economy is collapsing. Immigrants? Those fools are actually keeping you afloat while you…

[flagged]

We probably have a different definition for xenophobia.

Is anything I said not factually accurate? What triggered you? Tge empire bit? The British empire was huge and controled the world at one point in time. The fact that the economy is collapsing? The fact that immigrants are treated like shift in UK?

Every country and political system has to live with the monsters they created, UK included.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#69

Post by mpweiher »

clever-leap wrote: post #36

Wishful thinking. First the EU needs to change itself so people will want to re-join. Rather it seems that the EU is going opposite direction. After Covid era, I guess no sound person trust its institutions anymore.

> First the EU needs to change itself so people will want to re-join

Already happened. From the fine article:

"60 per cent of Britons now think Brexit was the wrong decision and would vote to rejoin the EU at a second referendum"

And young voters are just a tad more lopsided:

"Young voters are the most pro-EU of the lot, with 79 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds wanting to rejoin"

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