I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world. • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#61

Post by astine » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 3:57 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #31

Iv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Microsoft webcam. The kind that is sold with a big label on the USB plug saying INSTALL THE DRIVER BEFORE PLUGGING ! It never worked on my wife's Vista. It worked without installing drivers on Ubuntu. A microsoft hardware failing on a microsoft software. This day I decided Ubuntu was ready for mainstream. A few hardware makers play foul (I am hating nVidia a lot on the whole Optimus issue) but when it comes…

People are really not reading my last paragraph, are they? If Windows rates a 6/10, you don't unseat them by being 7/10 or even 8/10. You need to be better than "better than Windows". Ubuntu is striving to not be "better than Windows" but rather "really good on its own merits, without need for comparison". I like this and I appreciate this, but they're not quite there yet. Two years, maybe.

To be fair, it rule one of persuasive writing to put your thesis at the beginning of your argument and follow with your supporting arguments. As it is, you're changing your entire argument in the second to last sentence.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#62

Post by ktizo » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 3:58 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

"Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux."

Lexmark printer compatibility page for Ubuntu;

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsP...

setting up a lexmark x4650 printer for wireless printing with 64 bit ubuntu;

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1692003

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#63

Post by javadyan » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

kiloaper wrote: post #19

freehunter wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

Switchable graphics do indeed suck. I returned a laptop because of it, despite being told specifically the model I ordered did not have Optimus hybrid graphics. But it's not unsolvable. It's problem with companies not supporting Linux. Nvidia just joined the Linux foundation and ways to accommodate switchable graphics are already being discussed. It rules out some of the newest hardware in the short term but I have n…

>Linux won't be ready until you can download a file from the Internet, run it, and install it just with a couple clicks (and not "you need to set the 'exectuable' flag!" error).

That way of installing software has to go. Seriously. Stop it. It's horrible.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#64

Post by douglasisshiny » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

douglasisshiny wrote: post #17

I used to spend (i.e., waste) time reading linux blogs, each touting innovations in Ubuntu, et al. on the desktop. These "innovations" were anything but sorely needed or outdated features / programs (look at basically any media player). The most absurd aspect of these blogs is the focus on the desktop/laptop (well, also on the whole free software aspect, as if the average person cares or is aware of such a concept).…

I should be clear, I have used Ubuntu since 5.04 (Debian before that and I used Mint for a bit, too).

I'm not saying Ubuntu or other distros are bad. Some releases have been fairly well executed. But they generally don't introduce anything groundbreaking. And they have very little OEM support. A very large majority of "the world" keeps the OS installed on their computer at the time they purchase it.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#65

Post by tdrgabi » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:10 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #8

orp wrote: post #3

I am unfortunately forced to disagree. I recently moved my home machine from Windows to Linux. After a little research, I picked Ubuntu 11.10 (with Unity). The installation went by pretty smoothly, everything seemed to work out of the box. The only manual configuration I had to do was to teach my Linux box to ping my Windows laptop. So far so good. Then, 2 weeks later, my disk went out of space. Turns out Ubuntu has…

>Turns out Ubuntu has a hidden log file that logs errors, with no sanity checks on size, and it hit 300+ GB. Uh, what is this hidden log?

I'm guessing here but it might be .xsession-errors

I've had it filled up once, because vinagre disagreed with some other library and it kept printing the same error message over and over. After several days it filled up the hdd.

Not saying it's vinagre's fault, just that it might happen and it's a "hidden ." log file

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#66

Post by tikhonj » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:11 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #28

kiloaper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switchable graphics do indeed suck. I returned a laptop because of it, despite being told specifically the model I ordered did not have Optimus hybrid graphics. But it's not unsolvable. It's problem with companies not supporting Linux. Nvidia just joined the Linux foundation and ways to accommodate switchable graphics are already being discussed. It rules out some of the newest hardware in the short term but I have n…

> The Software Center... [is] far better than what's available on Windows at the moment I agree on this, though not everything that can or should be installed on Ubuntu comes through the Software Center or even as a .deb or apt repo. For things outside of this, a .exe file on Windows has the upper hand. .exe (or .msi) is a Windows universal. .deb and .rpm are not Linux universals. > Installers can block each other on…

Eh, .deb may as well be a "universal"--I have not found any packages online that were packaged for Linux without a .deb file. They always either have a .deb or only provide the source for Linux users. Now, they sometimes don't even have an .rpm file, which is a little annoying on Fedora, but that's a different story. And, of course, they almost never have any other packages, but that's only to be expected--anybody using a non-deb, non-rpm distro can very probably fend for themselves. And, these days, I think only a small minority of new users choose distros other than Ubuntu, so supporting .rpm files is also less important.

Also, is installing a file at the same time as doing an update really a big feature? I've never even wanted it on Linux and I don't think I ever used it on Windows either.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#67

Post by tammer » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:11 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #2

I strongly disagree, and take exception to the fact that this "article" is 3 paragraphs long with zero information yet throws out the idea that Linux, even Ubuntu, is 1:1 competitive with Windows or OSX on the desktop. Contrary to the author, hardware is still a mess. Have a Lexmark wireless printer? Tough luck, there is no way to print to it from Linux. Have switchable graphics? Good luck there, too. Want your new l…

I totally concur. I recently tried an experiment - could my girlfriend use the Wubi installer and get Ubuntu going without any boyfriend tech-support?

Results:

The installer is far from perfect, but after a few tries and a few seemingly random glitches it repartitioned and installed flawlessly. She was able to boot into Oneric no problem.

Once she was there, she liked everything. Thought it looked really "zoomy" and way better than her experience with XP. Found the Software Center, and thought it was a great idea. Then, she tried to download some software.

At that point she got some confusing non-human-readable errors. Hmmm, I guess she'll try another one. No luck.

Finally she turns to me, and I realize she's not connected to Wifi. I try to connect, and it auto-promts me to install the Wifi drivers. "Awesome," I thought, maybe she didn't need my help after all!

Then, upon attempting the install it quits with a hilariously unreadable error that I wish I could remember at the moment. I realize that it's trying to download the Wifi drivers when there's no connection.

To put it bluntly, my girlfriend has no idea what an ethernet cable is. To expect her to figure out she needs one and further go buy one is far too ambitious for a distribution that claims it's for "everyone".

I understand the license implication for restricted drivers, but this in fact proves the point that Linux may never in fact be for "everyone". (And don't get me wrong, I'm an Arch fanatic!)

To be brief, Ubuntu is pleasing UI but terrible UX for anyone not willing to troubleshoot problems on their own.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#68

Post by MatthewPhillips » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:11 PM UTC

ktizo wrote: post #58

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my above post. Not being able to install 2 unrelated packages at once is a legit criticism. The merits of Windows/OSX installation are irrelevant to that point.

Open up a package manager, select two, or loads of, unrelated packages, apply. Is not a legitimate criticism.

Run an update of 60 packages, browse the internet while waiting for it to complete, find a .deb you're curious about and try to install it. You can't. Regardless of dependencies. Apt uses a global lock. That is bad UX, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#69

Post by icebraining » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:14 PM UTC

ktizo wrote: post #58

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my above post. Not being able to install 2 unrelated packages at once is a legit criticism. The merits of Windows/OSX installation are irrelevant to that point.

Open up a package manager, select two, or loads of, unrelated packages, apply. Is not a legitimate criticism.

Well, the criticism was in fact "you can't install software while updating your system," and it's true - if your system is updating, you have to wait to install another package.

In practice, I don't see this as a major problem, but on the other hand, many people have slower connections that me.

It'd be nice if the apt clients could download the packages without locking the database, and let you select and queue packages even if others are already being installed.

Re: I’m calling it: Ubuntu is finally ready for the world.

#70

Post by tikhonj » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:15 PM UTC

spurgu wrote: post #40

codedivine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you. I do recommend Linux to the more technical audience but stay away from recommending to non-tech friends and family. I think part of the problem can be solved if there was some nice hardware that came with Linux preinstalled, with all the driver configuration work already done for you. That will still not solve the printer issue you described, but the "install graphics/sound/wifi driver" issue…

"I think part of the problem can be solved if there was some nice hardware that came with Linux preinstalled, with all the driver configuration work already done for you." Something to think about: How many percent of the non-tech people you know have installed a fresh copy of Windows by themselves? It's always the tech savvy family member who does it

And installing a copy of Mac OS X is not only questionably legal but also significantly more difficult than installing Linux :).

In my experience, ~90% of all the problems I've had with Linux are at install time--missing drivers, complicated partitioning...etc. Once I have the system running, I've actually had less problems with Linux than either Windows or OS X.