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Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
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Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.
Call it logical fallacy, but just because it's hard [for you] to find doesn't mean it's not going on. I used to work with multiple ex-vice detectives. They had some seriously harrowing stories about the shit they routinely found on motel raids. If you think actual child sex slavery is "relatively hard to find," come visit Georgia. It's only been made hard to find because of FOSTA-SESTA; such services used to be adver…
These links are weak evidence that this is a wide-spread problem. Indeed, they arguably lack evidence for even the existence of human trafficking.
> https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/atlanta/news/pr...
48 of the 71 individuals identified (and having their names published online) are female adult sex workers. No claims are being made that any were victimized.
10 are crimes related to children, of those, 7 are "enticement", which may be LE setups. Certainly, no one being trafficked into motel rooms here.
We don't have details on the "11 juveniles recovered", but they are more like a 17y at risk of homelessness than what one would traditionally imagine to be "child sex slavery". It's also unclear if they are being helped by this recovery, or if you'll find their name appear on the arrest list for prostitution by next year's "human trafficking operation".
> https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/31-arrested-in-georgia-as-p...
What this article actually describes are people arrested for possession of CSAM. No claim is made that any victim was found during any motel raids. There is this:
> Seven of those arrested in Georgia traveled for the purpose of meeting and having sex with a minor.
But the phrasing makes it pretty reasonable to assume they were meetings setup by law enforcement.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#63Retarget them at religious pedophiles. The biggest pedophile problems seem to come from religious officials with the backing of their organization. There's been Catholic priest scandal after Catholic priest scandal.[1] The Boy Scouts of America turned out to be a nest of pedophile scout leaders.[2] Brooklyn's haredi community [3] and ultra-orthodox in Israel [4] had their own organized pedophile rings. Quit worrying…
Current "oh-so-progressive" pope is known to be a pedo enabler, having saved his own brother from accusations by moving him to south America, and generally conducting a words-only war against pedophilia. See the Emanuela Orlandi case.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#64Retarget them at religious pedophiles. The biggest pedophile problems seem to come from religious officials with the backing of their organization. There's been Catholic priest scandal after Catholic priest scandal.[1] The Boy Scouts of America turned out to be a nest of pedophile scout leaders.[2] Brooklyn's haredi community [3] and ultra-orthodox in Israel [4] had their own organized pedophile rings. Quit worrying…
Any evidence for your implication that sexual abuse is more common in religious organizations than secular organizations that deal with children? There’s about 15,000 sexual abuse complaints every year in schools: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/sexual-violence-rep... . Every year CPS agencies receive 4.4 million referrals for child mistreatment, about 10% of which relate to sexual abuse: https://www.childwe…
> The evidence suggests that abuse is actually a cross-cutting problem. It arises whenever you put adults in proximity to children. Why focus only on the religious organizations?
Focus should not be exclusively on religious organizations. But focus should be disproportionately on them because of their track record of using moral superiority to explain away and stop abusers.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#65Retarget them at religious pedophiles. The biggest pedophile problems seem to come from religious officials with the backing of their organization. There's been Catholic priest scandal after Catholic priest scandal.[1] The Boy Scouts of America turned out to be a nest of pedophile scout leaders.[2] Brooklyn's haredi community [3] and ultra-orthodox in Israel [4] had their own organized pedophile rings. Quit worrying…
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Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course—congregations are much bigger than classrooms. But the figures above are cited in terms of complaints (corresponding to number of victims) not number of perpetrators. Thus the better comparison is how many people attend school versus the number who attend Catholic Church. Catholics are 1/4 of the population, and over the relevant timeframe (back to 1950), probably half or more attended church regularly.
The number of possible victims isn’t the limiting factor here, it’s the number of pedophiles and their ability to prey on children. A substitute teacher may teach tens of thousands of children per year, but they don’t have a position of particular trust nor are they protected by the school system. The core complaint isn’t that the Church has more perpetrators, but rather that by protecting the perpetrators they incre…
I think this his the nail on the head. Any time you create a role and imbue it with unimpeachable morality or trust, grant it power, and bring it into close private contact with vulnerable persons, you have a recipe for abuse. Crime requires opportunity. Sometimes abusers are created by being placed into those roles. And of course some abusers are already fully formed, and will seek out those roles. I'm sure a lot of them they don't even do it knowingly. They gaslight and groom themselves into abusers as much as they gaslight and groom their victims. They're almost always male, except for a "rounding error". And you'll the pattern in an array of different roles: police, doctor, priest, scout master, BBC TV presenter, rock star, sports coach, therapist, charity boss. The more power and trust, and the greater the contract with the vulnerable, the more it'll happen.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.
> The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. Can you quote that part of the article? They make reference to looking for kids and browsing escort listings, but they're obviously looking for people on the younger side and even the article contains this bit: > When asked about Skull Games’s position on arresting victims, Tiegs emphasized that “arresting is different from prose…
> "All we have is a picture and a fake name"
That's an admission that they don't know the target's age. Which we knew anyway; they can't know it until after they do the doxx.
Even if they go for the ones who both have pictures and look young, there are more 18-and-19-year-olds out there than 16-and-17-year-olds, so their "random" sample will be mostly adults. And of course nobody is going to post a picture of a CHILD-child, since that's obviously a huge red flag that will get them caught.
> "but, using some of these tools, you’re able to identify her mugshot."
Children don't tend to have mugshots that often. And, by the way, if they have one, that means the system has arrested them in the past and obviously failed to get anywhere.
> "Finding a target’s high school diploma or sonogram imagery nets 15 points,"
Children don't tend to have high school diplomas almost ever.
I have no idea what the sonogram thing is about.
> "while finding the same tattoo on multiple women would earn a whopping 300"
I will admit that that does sound pretty off, so I won't claim it as going after the "self-employed". However, it does count as going after adults, since it's hard for a minor to get a tattoo at all.
> "In a July Skull Games webinar, one participant noted that they had been able to use PimEyes to find a sex worker’s driver’s license posted to the web."
The longer you have your license, the more time there is for a picture of it to get posted.
In fact, all of the stuff they say they're using tends to accumulate over time. You are far more likely to find any of that stuff on an adult than on a teenaged minor, and you'll pretty much never find any of it on a child as the term is normally understood.
As for arrests, first, they've already been doxxed, by people most of them would really prefer not know who they are, before the question of arrest comes into it. Second, "the group has no information about how many have resulted in prosecutions or indictments of actual traffickers". So they're handing this stuff over to cops and at best just hoping they won't prosecute any of the people they consider to be victims. That's, um, irresponsibly optimistic.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parents care about the probability of their kid being victimized. They don’t care whether 1 priest abuses 10 kids in a congregation of 300 or 10 teachers abuse 10 kids in a school of 300. The relevant metric is number complaints normalized by the relevant potential victim population. There’s more complaints in one year against schools than in 50 years against the Catholic Church. Yes, that’s partly because way more p…
> The relevant metric is number complaints normalized by the relevant potential victim population. It's obvious there's problems with either rate you'd choose for either task. We have varying degrees of exposure / vulnerability within the populations. Neither one really directly leads to a "risk per unit of exposure of child" or "risk of a given person being an offender". But it seems like you have some pretty motiva…
That’s exactly the point though—where is the evidence that churches are doing “much worse per unit of youth exposure?” OP asserts that religious organizations are doing especially bad, but makes no effort to compare sexual abuse rates there against the base rate. OP is the one engaged in motivated reasoning.
An important fact that gets overlooked is that religious organizations are one of the few aspects of civil society that put children in contact with adults. Really the only secular organizations that do so at a large scale are daycares, schools, and sports. It makes no sense to assert, as OP did, that churches are especially full of pedophiles, without offering a comparison against the other environments where children are exposed to adults.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The relevant metric is number complaints normalized by the relevant potential victim population. It's obvious there's problems with either rate you'd choose for either task. We have varying degrees of exposure / vulnerability within the populations. Neither one really directly leads to a "risk per unit of exposure of child" or "risk of a given person being an offender". But it seems like you have some pretty motiva…
That’s exactly the point though—where is the evidence that churches are doing “much worse per unit of youth exposure?” OP asserts that religious organizations are doing especially bad, but makes no effort to compare sexual abuse rates there against the base rate. OP is the one engaged in motivated reasoning. An important fact that gets overlooked is that religious organizations are one of the few aspects of civil soc…
Actually, they've provided evidence (somewhat flawed) that you've tried to wave away with other evidence/preferring another rate (that seems more flawed to me).
Religious organizations have a) smaller number of personnel, b) fewer youth contacts in total, c) lower hours of contact per average youth than your comparison organizations. We can debate about the importance of each of these in the denominator, but they're all signifiers.
Worse, you're trying to compare numbers for schools that include student-on-student sexual violence (the vast majority of cases) to complaints against staff and clergy for churches.
Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers
#70Retarget them at religious pedophiles. The biggest pedophile problems seem to come from religious officials with the backing of their organization. There's been Catholic priest scandal after Catholic priest scandal.[1] The Boy Scouts of America turned out to be a nest of pedophile scout leaders.[2] Brooklyn's haredi community [3] and ultra-orthodox in Israel [4] had their own organized pedophile rings. Quit worrying…
Love it, love that the retargeting is fine as long as you control the new targets. Love it.