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Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

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Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#61

Post by Kbelicius »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #40
toshk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking or exercise also have that effect, similar to mindfulness, if that's your goal. Therapy in itself has limited scientific backing (specific types for specific diagnosis often do). But it feels rational. However the main point is: Buddhism, and all religions, focus on why you do what you do. The Western Way is confusing, partially career & material, bit of humanism, etc. Now that's fine. You can figure it out i…

I agree. I come from a contemplative Christian tradition, and we've adapted Mindfulness to Christocentric meditations. I also practice centering prayer, and this is in the Hesychasm tradition of Christian contemplation. Hesychasm, and in modern times, Centering Prayer as well, are not without controversy. There are people who accuse us of attempting to "empty the mind" and push out all thought, but my goal is to fill…

> I come from a contemplative Christian tradition, and we've adapted Mindfulness to Christocentric meditations.

> Focusing first on the breath is a fundamental building block of this technique, but it is thoroughly a spiritual technique. To rob this contemplative prayer of its Christocentric nature is to eviscerate all meaning and all purpose from it as well.

So you've robbed mindfulness of its "budacentric" nature and it still works but if we rob it of the christocentric nature that you've added it wont work?

> It is a state of being in the moment and aware of what we're doing, and why, while we're doing it.

This is basically what every western source also says so I don't see why you think that "western" mindfulness doesn't work.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#62

Post by astrange »

unmole wrote: post #53
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant. It's fairly impossible to reconfigure a consumer device so that it doesn't do this. Someone who is practicing contemplation should not be held priso…

> A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention. No it isn't. > to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant. That doesn't match my experience in over the decade of using smartphones. > Someone who is p…

> Buddhism is non-theistic. There is no God.

This is a bold and untrue statement. There's every kind of Buddhism possible out there. Pure Land is pretty theistic…

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#63

Post by barrysteve »

lynx23 wrote: post #27
Knee_Pain wrote: post #18

If you want a free mindfulness app you should consider searching for the one developed by the US Department of Veteran Affairs on your platform's app store. It usually ranks very low on the list because not many people know about it and because all the other apps market themselves heavily. Unlike all the garbage apps which ask you for subscriptions and DLCs just to play 10 minutes of audio, every single thing is free…

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

It is strange.

I wouldn't come to a tech site to air the counter-tech opinion and I wouldn't anticipate a fair and balanced response.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#64

Post by astrange »

lynx23 wrote: post #27
Knee_Pain wrote: post #18

If you want a free mindfulness app you should consider searching for the one developed by the US Department of Veteran Affairs on your platform's app store. It usually ranks very low on the list because not many people know about it and because all the other apps market themselves heavily. Unlike all the garbage apps which ask you for subscriptions and DLCs just to play 10 minutes of audio, every single thing is free…

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

It's not any weirder than any other exercise app. It keeps you on track and reminds you what you're supposed to do. (Which isn't exactly "just sit there." You can do it wrong.)

You can even get an EEG reader for biofeedback meditation like Muse. Works well as long as you stay away from the Deepak Chopra stuff.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#65

Post by astrange »

TekMol wrote: post #4
miroljub wrote: post #2

Mindfulness meditation may reduce stress levels, but only temporary. Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms. I don't say that it doesn't "work", but one should be aware of the limitation of mindfulness practices, and look at it just as one of the tools in a tool set to fight stress, not as a holy grail, like many of its proponents preach.

User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies. Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"? How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this? The thought "Is it a long term effect or just temporary?" is totally fine. But then just posting out of your ass does not help anyobody. A quick search for "months" in…

> User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies.

Well, it's quite true that sometimes instead of developing stress resilience you should simply get rid of the source of the stress.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#66

Post by 50 »

submeta wrote: post #28

Mindfulness meditation is not merely a feel-good exercise or some mystical ritual. It's a practice that allows us to regularly enter a state of mind where we're not consumed by our incessant thoughts, which are constantly evaluating, reflecting on the past, or worrying about the future. This mental chatter is often the root cause of much of our stress. Many people rarely experience a state of mind where they are full…

Cioran, in effect: The blank time of meditation is, in truth, the only "full" time. We should never blush to accumulate vacant moments—vacant in appearance, filled in fact. To meditate is a supreme leisure, whose secret has been lost.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#67

Post by no1groyp »

Knee_Pain wrote: post #54
0xEF wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's not your responsibility to change anyone's mind. If you want to put info out there, back it up, etc, there's a good way to do that without going on the attack. I say to each their own, so long as "their own" does not harm others. If Buddhism works for someone, cool. If going to a psychologist works, also cool. When it comes to mental health, I think we can all agree that a one-size-fits-all solution does…

I simply said that breathing exercises have objective benefits which cannot be handwaved away. This whole spiel about argumentation was made up by a biased interpretation

[dead]

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#68

Post by no1groyp »

varispeed wrote: post #19
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

> Living & acting out of compassion (boddhicitta): if your main focus is other not yourself, a huge relief of worries is gone, and meaning arises naturally. Of course here articial part. You'll easily become a victim of people who exploit "caretakers". You'll become an unpaid servant. People need to look after themselves first.

[dead]

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#69

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

Kbelicius wrote: post #61
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I come from a contemplative Christian tradition, and we've adapted Mindfulness to Christocentric meditations. I also practice centering prayer, and this is in the Hesychasm tradition of Christian contemplation. Hesychasm, and in modern times, Centering Prayer as well, are not without controversy. There are people who accuse us of attempting to "empty the mind" and push out all thought, but my goal is to fill…

> I come from a contemplative Christian tradition, and we've adapted Mindfulness to Christocentric meditations. > Focusing first on the breath is a fundamental building block of this technique, but it is thoroughly a spiritual technique. To rob this contemplative prayer of its Christocentric nature is to eviscerate all meaning and all purpose from it as well. So you've robbed mindfulness of its "budacentric" nature a…

While I'm not a Buddhist, I'm fairly certain that the Buddha is the last guy to want to be the center of anyone's attention. Weird.

Buddhist contemplative traditions predate Christianity, and arose in distinct geographic locations, so nobody's de-Buddhizing anything here. Authentic understanding of the practices doesn't need to be a sectarian monopoly.

The uniquely indifferent, secular practice of "cafeteria Mindfulness" is the only novelty. It's exactly the M.O. of science: dissect a living thing and run tests until you think you know what substance makes it tick, then you isolate it, independently synthesize that substance, patent it, mass produce it, and then you wonder why you've got such shitty results in practice, and then you cover that up along with the adverse side effects, and charge the insurance companies triple profits.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#70

Post by roenxi »

Knee_Pain wrote: post #17
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

Breathing practices objectively have an effect on our body and nobody can counter this. Buddhist ideology on the other hand is up to debate and everyone is free to try it or believe it. Maybe in your experience meditation is enhanced by believing all that stuff, but that is your prerogative. I can do mindfulness and go to a psychologist instead of doing meditation and going to a temple because maybe that oriental stu…

The irony here is that hardcore Buddhism does debate the benefits of breathing. Nirvana is not something to be shunned. Not necessarily lusted for either. The correct attitude is ... up for debate.
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