Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X • Hacker News Board

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#61

Post by orasis » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #46

chefandy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even like they were making some cool thing that just happened to only run on AWS or something. It's more like: "We improved an important but comparatively small core feature of a huge, complex service built, owned, run, maintained, and constantly improved by one company. They probably had our whole business on a Trello card in their long-term project board from the moment we started. Then, out of nowhere, th…

It can still be a great business strategy, as long as you're aware of exactly the points you outlined. You just can't run a normal startup strategy of subsidized growth, instead you have to rush through the product lifecycle towards cash cow status and make hay while the sun is shining. Once $bigcorp kills your business by implementing their backlog you pivot to something else, with the advantage of already having a…

I wouldn’t call it a “great” business strategy if your shelf life is limited.

We have a finite amount of life energy to put into our businesses and I’d prefer to give it to something that can generate an annuity.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#62

Post by HWR_14 » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

adwn wrote: post #53

HWR_14 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel fairly confident your "insanely high amount" wasn't as high as you feel it was.

If it was much higher than what they ultimately spent on reproducing the product, then yes, "insanely high amount" might actually be an appropriate assessment.

Considering the "for what they were building." I assume that was the poster's thinking. On the other hand, there is value in acquihiring people who can see a need in your product you overlook and want to make it better. Sure, that feature was cheaper, but that's not all you buy.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#63

Post by drited » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #47

nolok wrote: post #6

"I built my business on top of someone else's product without any gurantee whatsoever of being able to continue in the future, and when it became valuable for them to stop me they did". Doesn't matter if you're a twitter client, a facebook app, a shopify app, a reddit client or whatever, either what you offer is negligible, or you did their research for them and now they can take over.

It's worse than that—within 6 months of them starting to operate Shopify updated the ToS to make it clear that the app they already knew was a grey area was actually formally banned. They received an email that said they wouldn't be shut down right away, which the author took to mean "carry on!" Then Shopify's COO called them personally to tell them to knock it off, and they used a technicality in the phrasing of the…

Aren't authorised? You seem to be way to accepting of authority for my liking.

We should be rooting for the small guys like this who shake monopolies out of their complacency.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#64

Post by drited » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

nolok wrote: post #6

"I built my business on top of someone else's product without any gurantee whatsoever of being able to continue in the future, and when it became valuable for them to stop me they did". Doesn't matter if you're a twitter client, a facebook app, a shopify app, a reddit client or whatever, either what you offer is negligible, or you did their research for them and now they can take over.

Absolutely this. If you’ve built something profitable on someone else’s land, get big and cash out as fast as you can. It’s unsustainable, you’re just doing an arbitrage play while it lasts. Do well fast so you optimize for more dice rolls in the future.

The author seems well aware of that though.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#65

Post by oellegaard » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

What is the value of using something like Shopify if you don’t even use the checkout and gateway included? You also need to code your own theme AFAIK

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#66

Post by CharlesW » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

matrix_overload wrote: post #4

This is a very expected outcome if you are creating your business around improving a larger business' product. You are effectively doing the product/market fit for them, for free. Once they see that your solution works, they will just knock it off, or ban you altogether. It used to be seen by companies as bad PR/karma a couple of decades ago, but not anymore.

> You are effectively doing the product/market fit for them, for free. Once they see that your solution works, they will just knock it off, or ban you altogether.

Or buy you. https://9to5mac.com/2023/07/01/apple-shortcuts-workflow-mana...

In this case, the TFA notes that Shopify offered the ISV a path forward and Mr. Leteyski chose "go to war" (Option B). He killed the business, not Shopify. He may chalk that up as a "win", but I'd bet his customers and employees don't.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#67

Post by atourgates » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

An interesting take. The only bit I strongly disagree with is this:

> One advice we got was to file an antitrust case against Shopify in a European Court.

> Theoretically, we could’ve argued that Shopify uses anti-competitive practices to get rid of their checkout competition. Similar to what Spotify & Epic Games did against Apple.

> While that might’ve been a viable option, honestly, I don’t have the balls to pick a legal fight with a multi-billion corporation.

> On top of that, I believe that crying to the regulator is a bitch move. After everything, I still believe that Shopify built their platform and they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

I have no insight into how the EU's competition laws would or would not apply here, but that's literally the regulator's job, and it's certainly not a "bitch move" to hold companies accountable for anticompetitive behavior (if that's what's happening).

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#68

Post by CPLX » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

orasis wrote: post #61

wongarsu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can still be a great business strategy, as long as you're aware of exactly the points you outlined. You just can't run a normal startup strategy of subsidized growth, instead you have to rush through the product lifecycle towards cash cow status and make hay while the sun is shining. Once $bigcorp kills your business by implementing their backlog you pivot to something else, with the advantage of already having a…

I wouldn’t call it a “great” business strategy if your shelf life is limited. We have a finite amount of life energy to put into our businesses and I’d prefer to give it to something that can generate an annuity.

I mean, the fact that this guy was making $7.2MM a year in revenue from his software seems relevant.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#69

Post by lazzlazzlazz » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

It's remarkable when stories like this reach the top of Hacker News, but then people still do not understand why one might want to build an application on a "Can't Be Evil" platform like a crypto network.

Scalability/costs/complexity aside — this is why Ethereum and similar decentralized computers are attractive.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#70

Post by troupe » Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

chefandy wrote: post #26

nolok wrote: post #6

"I built my business on top of someone else's product without any gurantee whatsoever of being able to continue in the future, and when it became valuable for them to stop me they did". Doesn't matter if you're a twitter client, a facebook app, a shopify app, a reddit client or whatever, either what you offer is negligible, or you did their research for them and now they can take over.

It's not even like they were making some cool thing that just happened to only run on AWS or something. It's more like: "We improved an important but comparatively small core feature of a huge, complex service built, owned, run, maintained, and constantly improved by one company. They probably had our whole business on a Trello card in their long-term project board from the moment we started. Then, out of nowhere, th…

> Then, out of nowhere, they just implemented it themselves!

If I'm understanding the timeline and details, it isn't that Shopify came out with a better solution which lost them customers. Shopify banned them from adding any new customers and at some point later Shopify delivered something that replicated some of their features.