Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 769 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#61

Post by guax »

speedgoose wrote: post #44

> “We’re looking at the range, and you literally see the number decrease in front of your eyes,” he said of his dashboard range meter. Well, I’m not sure what the range meter is supposed to do? Freeze when an eye tracker detects the driver looks at it? Or maybe he was idling the car in cold weather. Even without the heater running, the battery cools down and that can reduce the range. Electric vehicles aren’t perfect…

Thats the crux of the complaint tho, if the number requires education the number should not be used without context and something more realistic should be used. If on average the car does 250 miles it should not be advertised as 400. Either a range or a disclaimer should be present.

I think the "number decreasing" complaint seems to be related to the fact that you would drive 10 miles and lose 30 on the dash. The article also claims the number becomes more realistic when it crosses bellow 50% charge so I expect this difference to be noticeable.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#62

Post by tekla »

HWR_14 wrote: post #48
tekla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

How does the Tesla know I'm going on a trip?

Are you implying its strange that the Tesla can calculate a more accurate range estimate when you literally tell it where you want to go to its computer which can use map data to calculate energy usage, versus you just driving around in circles in a arbitrary area and the computer only can assume based on EPA average usage?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#63

Post by gt565k »

jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

ICE vehicles have lower range as well when going uphill or exceeding the optimal speed and increasing air drag.

The estimates are based on driving on a flat road at the speed limit.

Even my Lexus SUV can get 24mpg driving on 35-45mph roads vs 16-19 in the city or going to the mountains where elevation increases.

People's understanding of range is just not quite there yet whether it's for an ICE vehicle or an EV.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#64

Post by mikro2nd »

londons_explore wrote: post #41
TheAlchemist wrote: post #5

That's a pretty damning article and it looks like there are more and more of those coming. Tesla still somehow benefits from its innovators / clean company reputation, but at this pace it won't be long before agencies start to act on what's become much more than just 'optimistic marketing'.

I'd like to see more data... For example, if you get 10 tesla cars of the same model, do the ranges differ? If you get 1 car and 10 different drivers, do some drivers get the advertised range while others don't? If you disassemble the battery packs, do you find some bad/degraded cells in cars with reduced range, or is this a design fault? Do drivers that have trouble have inefficient mods, like roof racks, big wheels…

I don't think you need more data. Tesla had a team of people "managing" this issue to relieve demand on their service centres. What more data do you think would be useful to clarify Tesla's actions?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#65

Post by gt565k »

HWR_14 wrote: post #48
tekla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

When going on a road trip Tesla calculates the time based on the route you put into navigation.

Obviously it will give a different estimate than stop and go traffic and starting the vehicle without pre-conditioning the battery.

Tesla does a great job with their scheduling functionality that lets you pre-condition battery before you leave and even when you near a supercharger to maximize charging efficiency of the battery.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#66

Post by mensetmanusman »

HWR_14 wrote: post #48
tekla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

That’s how it’s supposed to work. EVs, to a fault (some may argue), are so efficient that any change in driving condition can have a major impact on range.

Eg. Having a window down, slope, number of passengers, etc.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#67

Post by osigurdson »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #27
aaomidi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have it backwards. The car serves you. You should not have to serve the car (beyond universal, traditional things, like the need to maintain, insure, etc.). It’s reasonable to ask for a range estimate that’s not naively optimistic.

>> The car serves you

The user will get more value out of any machine if they develop an accurate mental model of how it operates.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#69

Post by javajosh »

HWR_14 wrote: post #54
light_hue_1 wrote: post #21

Man. I love my Tesla (please car manufacturers hire good software engineers, pay them better and let them do their thing). But screw that guy. I don't think we'll be buying another one. It's time for a class action lawsuit and to be rid of him.

I just hope some car manufacturers continue to not hire UX designers and have everything not related to the actual operation of the car (controlled by physical switches) just be a dumb screen for my phone to control.

That would be great. I'd go further: I want mechanical linkages for throttle, breaks, and steering. No more "drive by wire". I cannot, will not trust my families safety to a smartphone with wheels.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#70

Post by wredue »

>Inside the Nevada team’s office, some employees celebrated canceling service appointments by putting their phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone, triggering applause from coworkers who sometimes stood on desks.

It’s weird how this sentence was probably supposed to surprise the reader, but I really just reflected on how the fans conduct themselves regularly and thought “yup, sounds about on par”.

Post reply on HN