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Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

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Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#61

Post by zokier »

rkagerer wrote: post #48
dtx1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Alex, what a great idea, thank you very much. Two years ago I was evaluating different signing solutions for the company I worked with and there were two killer features that forced us to go with docusign since at the time they were the only ones really supporting it: 1. Relaying of Submissions to other Signers We often found that we needed to get a Signature from someone at another company. However, we couldn't a…

I'm interested in reading more about #2, can you provide a source? https://www.docusign.com/products/electronic-signature/legal... doesn't mention anything about videos or passports. I could see how that might be one means a third party has chosen to collect proof of intent, but haven't found anything legally mandating it.

https://support.docusign.com/s/document-item?language=en_US&...

This describes how docusign uses video identification for document signing.

> If they request qualified signatures, you must verify your identity with the IDnow video service after selecting the SIGN button.

Signicat, another document signing service, uses WebID to do video verification

https://www.signicat.com/identity-methods/web-id

> The WebID service VideoID provides call-center functionality, where trained support agents can verify the validity of the provided identity papers and ask security questions to the end-user during a live video call.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#62

Post by somery »

rodolphoarruda wrote: post #57
somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Hi Alex. First of all, congratulations. The product looks great for a 1.5 month worth of dev work. Impressive. Is it possible at the moment to send signature requests via WhatsApp? (even at a cost per send)

It's not possible at the moment - but i've been planning to add this feature to use phone number and text messages (including WhatsApp) as a second layer of authorization when signing docs. Stay tuned!

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#63

Post by somery »

_aaed wrote: post #24
somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Looks like great work for a 2 month project

Thanks

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#64

Post by dtx1 »

rkagerer wrote: post #48
dtx1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Alex, what a great idea, thank you very much. Two years ago I was evaluating different signing solutions for the company I worked with and there were two killer features that forced us to go with docusign since at the time they were the only ones really supporting it: 1. Relaying of Submissions to other Signers We often found that we needed to get a Signature from someone at another company. However, we couldn't a…

I'm interested in reading more about #2, can you provide a source? https://www.docusign.com/products/electronic-signature/legal... doesn't mention anything about videos or passports. I could see how that might be one means a third party has chosen to collect proof of intent, but haven't found anything legally mandating it.

This may be german law specific, the overarching EU Legislation can be found by googlign "qualified electronic signature".

In general they require complete, verified cryptographic signatures via smartcards or similar but because no one uses it, videoident has become the defacto alternative in germany

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#65

Post by noodlesUK »

In order for this to be legally useful to users in the EU/UK, this would need to comply with the eIDAS regulations. I’m not sure what that entails, but it would be worth looking into.

A lot of the value of a signature provider comes from it being a neutral trusted third party. They slap a signature and a time stamp on a document, and you can get them to testify that the document existed in a particular state at a particular time.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#66

Post by zokier »

Canada wrote: post #51
haswell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docusign makes it easy to collect lots of signatures from lots of people. That’s the use-case from my POV. 1 signature on 1 doc, use any PDF tool—no problem. Collecting lots of signatures isn’t Docusign’s value prop. The value is signature certification, and a proven track record in court. A single signature on a PDF is not technically difficult. The machinery to reasonably guarantee (edit: verify is a better word…

DocuSign doesn't really do anything to reasonably guarantee that it was any particular person who signed the PDF. Not that it really matters. If there was something worth suing over then usually there will be plenty of other evidence as to who signed the agreement. Really the only thing that DocuSign does is timestamp the actions on the document. In order to get that a self hosted implementation would need some kind…

Depends on country how much verification DocuSign is able to do, and also the higher levels of verification are opt-in. In some countries it can be backed with fairly strong auth schemes, in other places stuff like video calls are used.

This link has list of different IDs they support in different countries:

https://support.docusign.com/s/document-item?language=en_US&...

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#67

Post by dtx1 »

infogulch wrote: post #50
dtx1 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are both unfortunatly trivially faked

And yet it's the standard practice for normal people.

From my research this has 0 legal validity, at least in germany in regards to the EU eIDAS. They are just smoke and mirrors for companies to make them "feel" secure but without cryptographic ensurances (Advanced Electronic Signature) or TLS like Signed Cryptography (Qualified Electronic Signature) this is just as legally binding or not binding as an E-Mail

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#68

Post by colechristensen »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #9
reisr3 wrote: post #5

What is the bar for a "legally binding digital signature"? Is this a very complicated topic - or is it quite simple? I can sign a PDF with OSX Preview for free. I can pay a bunch of money to sign with Docusign. Both produce a PDF with a digital image of my signature. I assume both documents constitute a legally binding agreement, so long as I actually preformed the digital signature. What justification do the e-signa…

> What justification do the e-signature SaaS companies have for their exorbitant prices? They will defend their digital signature in court. I was shocked to find these "click here to sign" contracts manage to do it all without an ounce of cryptography, but the fact is lawyers don't need cold hard math, they need a warm body to be a subject matter expert to explain to a jury that unless you're claiming someone else ha…

I had to get a notary to sign my I-9 form for a new remote job. The process of identity verification involved a seemingly 19 year old dude looking at my ID and then signing a piece of paper.

A website sending you an email and tracking your IP and keeping a log... seems to be about the same level of trust to be honest.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#69

Post by MaKey »

somery wrote: post #38
tyingq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem on somewhat dangerous ground for "trademark similarity testing", "consumer perception", etc...with "docu- ". I'd have gone with "DocSeal" or something that was a harder break from the "DocuSxxx" pattern.

Thanks for pointing this out - it actually didn't expect that because of GitHub and GitLab and i haven't hears any trademark dispures between them. When Gitlab differs from Github by only 2 letters - DocuSeal vs DocuSign is already 3 letters. But i think that's a valid concern and i need to better investigate this - changing the name shouldn't be a problem when the project is still very new.

I'd keep the name and not worry too much (I like it). Going after a small open source project would be bad press for DocuSign and even if they did, it would be a promotion for DocuSeal and you could change the name afterwards.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#70

Post by o1y32 »

Signing documents online is not a technical problem but a business and legal problem. DocuSign and other commercial companies have a business not necessarily because they have any unique technology or the best user experience (they often do), but because they handle all the complex stuff around signing documents.

A reality many people don't see is that many commercial companies really have the expertise in certain areas and have the resources to handle the non technical side of things, at least much better than open source communities. Similar to "open source tax filing software", I'm afraid this is another example of people thinking open source solves every problem. I for one don't see myself using any of such tools unless they are actually reliable, competitive and trusted by many corporations and individuals.

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