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On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

honeycomb.io

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Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#61

Post by tjpnz »

Aurornis wrote: post #9

This series of blog posts have had some really great insights. However, they’ve also left me feeling uneasy for reasons I couldn’t really put my finger on. It finally clicked when I read the section justifying the company's low compensation: > Industry data shows that Honeycomb is about average in this as a series D startup, not an outlier. I have friends who are line managers at larger companies who take home more t…

That uneasy feeling is consistent with many of the recent Glassdoor reviews. Sounds like a miserable place to work.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#62

Post by fatnoah »

qqtt wrote: post #44
dalyons wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah for executive positions like VP the vast majority of the comp is in stock. At a bigco that will be liquid, at a startup it won’t, hence the difference in “market rate”. But the startup equity is theoretically worth much more, it’s a huge risk but you have to on some level believe the valuation, or you wouldn’t take the job.

> the startup equity is theoretically But there is nothing theoretical about start up equity in companies that have raised money. They have a very clear valuation, and especially Series D, that valuation will already be pretty mature. AirBNB did a Series D with a valuation at 10.5 billion in 2014. They are currently around 91.66 billion market cap. That is a nice 900% return, but that's not a completely different bal…

Obviously my experience is my own, but the the net value of my stock was $0 from my three startups (2 acquired and 1 is a lifestyle business for the founder).

I was VP Eng at the last one and did receive a 6 figure bonus (everyone got at least 5 figures, minimum of $20k) and everyone also got new offers with the acquiring public company that included ~20% raises and RSU grants.

For me, all of that combined was equal to my first year at a FAANG, even before accounting for stock increases.

I'm now back as VP at a different startup, though one that's got a much better product and actual customers. It was a 65% pay cut (I view options as a lottery ticket).

For me, startups are more about the experience, than about the money. When a C level exec made a comment about some people not working as hard as themselves (they're a 24/7 kind of person), I pointed out that a) we pay decently well at about 75th percentile but b) the 0.025% or less equity those people have will possibly be enough after taxes to buy a vehicle, even in some wild multi-billion dollar exit scenario. Multiple years of slaving at a (real or virtual) office isn't worth that.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#63

Post by spicyusername »

rfrey wrote: post #15

> While engineering teams often thrive on routine and ritual (sprint planning, on-call rotations, recurring retros, etc.) My eyes rolled back so hard I'm not sure they'll ever face forward again. Lotta good stuff in this essay, but that one missed the mark a bit.

What's wrong with those things?

In my experience, places that lack things like them are either small, and don't need them, or large, and in constant chaos.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#64

Post by icedchai »

benjiweber wrote: post #52
icedchai wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. In my experience, the only people who like sprint planning and retros are the PMs.

If the team habits you have aren't joyful or even useful, why don't you change them?

I mention it, and I get “[other person] wants to do it this way.” The other person is a product manager, not an engineer. You can only complain so much.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#65

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

It should be said that Charity Majors is a self proclaimed thought leader. Majors wrote an entire book on observability without considering metrics. The company they founded positioned itself as different, progressive, but it's not. It's just missing foundational aspects of analyzing systems.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#66

Post by potamic »

> Writing, reading, updating, or providing feedback on strategy, at a variety of levels

What does this look like in more tangible terms? I think many people understand the various managerial aspects of the role by imagining a scaled up hierarchy, but are quite hazy about the "core" responsibilities. It would be great to see a concrete instance of such work entails and the specifics involved.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering pt. 2

#67

Post by dilyevsky »

dalyons wrote: post #24
nickstinemates wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is left unsaid: working at a startup at an executive level typically involves whole percentages of equity in the company. If honeycomb continues to succeed and there's some sort of exit or liquidation (which can happen in series D, E rounds for select individuals like executives) then I am sure the total comp is not "about average" but instead much greater than average.

Yeah for executive positions like VP the vast majority of the comp is in stock. At a bigco that will be liquid, at a startup it won’t, hence the difference in “market rate”. But the startup equity is theoretically worth much more, it’s a huge risk but you have to on some level believe the valuation, or you wouldn’t take the job.

Most of those D stage startups are now firmly underwater on their options issues in last couple years. Since this person was employee #12 it’s probably not as bad but still nowhere near what one could be making as sr manager at faang (which is what these startup vps are roughly equivalent to in scope and hence pay)
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