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Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

blog.polar.sh

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Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#61

Post by xNeil »

birk wrote: post #48
password4321 wrote: post #10

So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? It doesn't seem logical but I hope someone can pull it off! I would like to learn more about the background of the founders - what they've already done in any way related to this. Why does Polar have a chance?

That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incre…

Sounds awesome! Love your idea, but I was wondering as to what would happen if GitHub built this into their platform directly, bypassing Polar. What does Polar have that GitHub doesn't, in case that happens?

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#62

Post by cloverich »

rgbrgb wrote: post #23
password4321 wrote: post #10

So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? It doesn't seem logical but I hope someone can pull it off! I would like to learn more about the background of the founders - what they've already done in any way related to this. Why does Polar have a chance?

Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. Good luck to the founders, it’s a worthy problem.

You don't, and this isn't directed at OP, but the industry is ripe with hubris. Having a track record of success is less about pedigree, and more about building off of prior learnings and experience to solve complex problems. And leveraging your network when relevant.

Thinking that those things aren't an important asset is common and IMO a flaw.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#63

Post by carlosjobim »

j1elo wrote: post #36
brigadier132 wrote: post #8

I have had situations where i wanted to use an open source tool that was somewhat obscure and i would have paid $300-400 an hour for consulting from the maintainers/creators and could not get in contact with anyone. So if you create open source software i recommend posting a link to a consulting business with some minimum price that you are satisfied with, even if its something like $1k an hour.

But the time I might spend working on consulting inquiries is not time spent on the daily job, on the oss project itself (especially if the request is about something not aligned with the roadmap of the project), or on relaxing during free time. As an oss maintainer, the way I see it is that unless the purpose itself behind the oss code is to make money via consulting, offering consulting is usually not in the intere…

Wait, if you are getting paid for adding features or fixing stuff on the OSS code, that's time spent on the project. And chances are that if somebody is willing to pay something, many other people will find use for it.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#65

Post by troymc »

mertbio wrote: post #60
hobofan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See mkdocs-material as a prime example Then I hope you provide a better system for dealing with (or allowing the maintainers to deal with) taxes. Unless the maintainer of mkdocs-material somehow funnels the earnings through a US company, I'm almost certain that it's impossible to offer what they offer while being based in Germany without violation tax rules (as what they are offering is clearly a sale and not a don…

Polar can cover the sales tax like Lemonsqueezy by being a merchant of record.

That's one way to do it, but it's extremely challenging. The sales tax can depend on where the buyer is located, where the buyer is from, where the seller is located, and where the seller is from. There are ~1000 jurisdictions for each of those four choices, so that makes for ~1000^4 different cases to handle. You'd also have to register as a merchant in each juridiction, and know the rules for when you have to start remitting sales tax to that jurisdiction. There are whole businesses built around managing that complexity, e.g. Avalara, Vertex and TaxJar (now part of Stripe). Maybe just offload that burden to one of them and focus on building your core innovation.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#66

Post by charcircuit »

hobofan wrote: post #57
birk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incre…

> See mkdocs-material as a prime example Then I hope you provide a better system for dealing with (or allowing the maintainers to deal with) taxes. Unless the maintainer of mkdocs-material somehow funnels the earnings through a US company, I'm almost certain that it's impossible to offer what they offer while being based in Germany without violation tax rules (as what they are offering is clearly a sale and not a don…

Unless they are a 503 (c) it wouldn't be a donation even if they gave nothing in return.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#67

Post by charcircuit »

yoavm wrote: post #30

I'm sorry, but I would never give money to an open-source project through a VC-backed company that takes a 10% commission. I could maybe live with it if it was 0.5%, but heck I'll just find the maintainer and wire them the money somehow. Github Sponsorship takes 0% from private accounts. I could very much be wrong about this, but the whole thing feels like it's coming from the perspective of someone thinking "I've he…

You can make more money on a platform that has a higher fee if that platform has a better brand, has less friction, has more users, is easier to setup, etc.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#68

Post by thayne »

brigadier132 wrote: post #8

I have had situations where i wanted to use an open source tool that was somewhat obscure and i would have paid $300-400 an hour for consulting from the maintainers/creators and could not get in contact with anyone. So if you create open source software i recommend posting a link to a consulting business with some minimum price that you are satisfied with, even if its something like $1k an hour.

My open source work is a hobby. If you want to give me some money for something I would do anyway, I probably won't say no. Or if you and people like you paid me enough consistently that I could quit my day job and focus completely on my OSS projects, then I would probably do that. But even for $1k an hour I don't know that I would want to deal with contractual obligations for my hobby project.

Of course that isn't the case for all projects, but you can't always assume that the maintainer is willing to accept payment if you are willing to give it.

I think a better model might be to have consultant companies that employee people to fulfill bounties on various projects, and possibly handle building and distributing custom forks if the upstream maintainer is unresponsive (or just takes longer than the customer wants) or doesn't want the change upstream.

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#69

Post by some_furry »

birk wrote: post #48
password4321 wrote: post #10

So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? It doesn't seem logical but I hope someone can pull it off! I would like to learn more about the background of the founders - what they've already done in any way related to this. Why does Polar have a chance?

That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incre…

How do you plan to prevent enshittification of your service over time?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/enshittification for background of this term

The reason I'm asking is: I believe VCs increase the risk of enshittification.

Incumbents that employed a "pay a bounty for maintainers to fix the issue" model would simply pocket the bounties for issues that never got picked up. Is this a risk for yours too?

Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding

#70

Post by thayne »

hobofan wrote: post #53
rgbrgb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. Good luck to the founders, it’s a worthy problem.

> Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. No, but you should at least provide a perspective why you will succeed (where many others have tried and failed). The only thing I see different in their approach is trying to "empower maintainers to become entrepreneurs", in a market in which there is no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash). And they try to do that with a offer…

> no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash)

My company would be a lot more willing to pay a one-time bounty to fix a bug that is impacting us or build a feature that would help us then to pay a continual donation or sponsorship for uncertain benefit.

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