Can a puppetry major survive a flagship’s financial crisis? Should it? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can a puppetry major survive a flagship’s financial crisis? Should it?

#61

Post by washadjeffmad » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 3:07 PM UTC

stolenmerch wrote: post #21

I received a BA and MFA in small, idiosyncratic arts programs even more niche and unmarketable than puppetry. After graduation and realizing I'd never be employed, I set off taking free online CS courses and programming tutorials. In hindsight, I really wish I would have done it exactly opposite. Study computer science in college and take a couple of arts classes as electives or pursue it as a part-time hobby. It all…

My friend was an accounting major with a $75K/yr internship who spent his every free moment in art studios. His parents were worried it was a distraction, but it was actually the mental wellness support he needed to pursue accounting.

Life is about balance, and while I can quibble over the last part of your statement, I do agree that more needs to be done to expand student access to non-program classes. Even students within a college or school don't always have access to every course being taught if it's outside of their chosen track, and that siloing isn't good for producing well-rounded, interdisciplinary-minded people.

Re: Can a puppetry major survive a flagship’s financial crisis? Should it?

#62

Post by rhaway84773 » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

jkingsbery wrote: post #11

Not everything that we learn has to be learned in college. Not sure if 100% accurate, but a quick google search shows WVU tuition is about $9k for in-state, $25k out of state... does it really make sense for someone to spend $100k (or $36k, for West Virginia residents) to learn puppetry? If that's your thing, great, why not go apprentice yourself somewhere to learn that skill instead? Or offer a class or two in puppe…

The problem ultimately boils down to the 710% increase in tuition.

If college education had retained the same tuition costs as it did 30 odd years ago (increasing at the rate of inflation only), that puppetry major would have cost something like $20k over 4 years, probably been paid off by the student doing part time work at the library, etc. and the student would have graduated debt free with some party time work experience and taken a few years to see if they could parlay their experience into the next Muppets. If rent hadn’t blown up the way it has either, they would have supported themselves by doing a bartender’s job or server’s job, and as the thing wasn’t working out could have started doing some courses on the side, and a few years later either leveraged all their work experience or these side courses into a real job, or taken up a master’s and made a career switch while having given something really interesting and different a go, for which the entire world would be better off.

However, massive increase in tuition costs and rent with no corresponding increase in the safety net means risk taking has to pretty much been eliminated at the individual level which will cost society overall.

Re: Can a puppetry major survive a flagship’s financial crisis? Should it?

#63

Post by TimPC » Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 12:51 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #41

TimPC wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think STEM is suited to academia in multiple ways: first, the chances of success at learning it seem to be higher in a structured, rigorous program compared to independently. One of the problems with online universities is that they don't apply enough deadline pressure so in many cases only 20% of students who sign up for a course even finish it. If you want to put four years into something and reliably get somewhe…

> first, the chances of success at learning it seem to be higher in a structured, rigorous program compared to independently That seems an argument for all education to take place inside academia. Keep in mind that liking to read history books is not equivalent to a university degree in history. > Furthermore, most STEM fields have job markets where salaries that can realistically make getting a degree a worthwhile i…

Math education is the second highest paid undergrad in arts and science and was number one ahead of CS for a long-time. Many people with math degrees end up in high paying technology or statistics jobs. Math is both an incredibly marketable skill and the program often indirectly selects for high IQ which is correlated with success to a certain degree. You generally aren't going to do abstract algebra or topology for a career unless you are a math professor but being good at abstract algebra or topology generally requires a lot of skills that are useful in the labour market.

As for the main point, I think the best form of education for something does depend on what the outcomes are. If you're getting a degree that doesn't qualify you pay back the costs of that education maybe alternative methods have better outcomes (we'd accept a decrease in educational attainment for cost). If being a small amount better at something is lucrative we should optimize for performance more than cost.