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‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#61

Post by blecthp »

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #44
TurkishPoptart wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about children. Look at the charts here. [1] Why is the number of children experiencing this "gender dysphoria" skyrocketing? It should be linear, not exponential. There is a mental craze driving this, which is extremely profitable for the medical industry. This industry is preying on children to make a profit, justifying all the research on the small percentage of trans adults that actually need this tre…

Why would it be linear? The reasons it's increasing is because people no longer feel as much pressure to hide their true identity. It's the same reason that the number of left handed people doubled from 1920 to 1960 [1], it's not a conspiracy it's just the way social norms work [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/07/americas-...

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#62

Post by Georgelemental »

joe__f wrote: post #51
test098 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=1 is not a representative sample. many people suffer from medical treatments and regret having them. if you can show me that the percentage of people who regret trans treatments are dramatically higher than people who regret _any_ medical treatment, maybe then you'll have an argument.

Yeah, I was watching a gender doctor on youtube who was saying something like 'suicide rate in trans people who don't go on HRT as a teenager is 40%, so we put teenagers on Lupron and send them to therapy until they're sure if they want to transition or not. Increased chance of osteoporosis in old age isn't much of a risk compared to 40% suicide rate' (my words from memory, not a direct quote)

What's the suicide rate in people who do take the treatments?

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#63

Post by eesmith »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #5
lockhouse wrote: post #4

The key distinction here is these laws limit gender affirming care for minors.

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> the same as in Lupron, which was force-fed to Alan Turing

1) Turing was not force-fed. He chose that treatment over spending a year in prison. https://archive.org/details/alanturingenigma0000hodg_q8b8/pa...

2) Turing was given DES - diethylstilbestrol - a nonsteroidal estrogen medication. It is an agonist of the estrogen receptors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol . For a non-Wikipedia source, https://archive.org/details/prof.-alan-turing-decoded-a-biog...

3) Lupron is a brand name for leuprorelin, "in the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) analogue family of medications". It looks nothing like DES and has a very different method of action ("decreasing gonadotropin and therefore decreasing testosterone and estradiol"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuprorelin

4) Leuprorelin wasn't discovered until 1973. https://academic.oup.com/jjco/article/43/4/357/976035?login=... . Turing died in 1954. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing .

Since that was outright wrong, I will easily assume everything else you write on the topic is equally wrong.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#64

Post by blecthp »

stubybubs wrote: post #29
Georgelemental wrote: post #17

Puberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure…

Everything in the body is complicated. The history of medicine is rife with unintended consequences. Many body altering surgeries are entirely useless and dangerous. Over 40% of antibiotic prescriptions are off-label and fully 75% of all prescriptions in pediatric populations are off-label, all of those prescriptions being administered by definition at a time of great growth and change in the body. And yet it's only…

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#65

Post by mckern »

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #36
bletchp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...

Puberty blockers are claimed to be non-permanent. However, that can't be verified at present [0]. In light of that, such a claim being made in the first place is definitely medical malpractice of some sorts.

Also, I do not think medical sources from America are reliable for this topic. The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. Medical and psychological associations in the US have been captured by such activists and are pushing false rhetoric such as "the science is settled" and "we have medical consensus" (note the misrepresentation here; consensus does not imply evidence-based).

US have a problem where radical activists have captured many influential cultural institutions. Anyone who disagree is automatically designated a "right-winger", "conservative", "white supremacist", "oppressor", "racist", "sexist", "homophobe", "transphobe", etc. This should be obvious to anyone looking from outside the anglo-sphere. For things to get to the point where US can't even recognise what a medical scandal is is frankly appalling, especially when their counterparts in Europe is able to do so.

[0] https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/11/15/nyt-questions-pube...

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#66

Post by heftland »

sverona wrote: post #40
theprincess wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria. Conversion therapists like Ken Zucker know full well about gender dysphoria and helped create the old "gender identity disorder" diagnosis in DSM IV. The "conversion" they are trying to achieve is to change the child's gender identity so that it's congruent with their sex via conversion therapy. This has failed spectacularl…

You're talking past me. I'm a trans girl who went through testosterone-mediated puberty. If "the cause" is dysphoria, then "treating the cause" is transitioning.

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#69

Post by joe__f »

Georgelemental wrote: post #62
joe__f wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was watching a gender doctor on youtube who was saying something like 'suicide rate in trans people who don't go on HRT as a teenager is 40%, so we put teenagers on Lupron and send them to therapy until they're sure if they want to transition or not. Increased chance of osteoporosis in old age isn't much of a risk compared to 40% suicide rate' (my words from memory, not a direct quote)

What's the suicide rate in people who do take the treatments?

From memory, he was saying that people who go through some kind of trans affirmative procedures have a dissatisfaction rate of 5% and this is likely to be lower than the complication rate.

I think I watched the first hour, here's the video: https://youtu.be/qGuvDlYDNzU, I'm sure if you're inclined to be critical of trans healthcare then it would be possible to make counter arguments to things that he says.

My perspective is; There seems to be concrete evidence from neuroimaging studies that transgender people's neuroanatomy more clearly matches the identified gender than the chromosomal gender. This is corroborated by anthropological and epidemiological evidence.

Clearly it's a complex issue and I think it could be quite possible to put cisgender people whose sense of gender was badly traumatised on hormone therapy as a teenager and cause them problems later in life. However 40% suicide rate in trans people is not something to be ignored

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#70

Post by theprincess »

tinus_hn wrote: post #54
theprincess wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughabl…

> It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.

About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by the puberty of their natal sex in such a way as to draw constant negative attention. While it is very reasonable to want to lower that 2% rate down even further, attempting to rip care away from that other 98% is not reasonable. Just prejudice, masquerading as concern for children, same as the 80's when "save the children" was having a national campaign against homosexual rights.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S188898912...

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