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Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

giansegato.com

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Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#61

There is a field of education, that studies teaching and learning! In fact many of you who attended university and studied at a "school of computer science" would have been in a building next to a "school of education". This post is interesting, but it reads like a layperson (from a teaching point of view) coming up with some fairly good theories of learning (of which there are quite a few) and discussing how applyin…

Schools of education have a very poor reputation for a reason.

There's analysis done on the "teacher quality" (based on student results) and the amount of teacher training (at these schools). There's basically zero difference between an emergency qualified teacher with no education qualifications, and someone with a masters or PhD of education.

Quote - https://caldercenter.org/sites/default/files/1001059_Teacher...

> Our results suggest that only two of the forms of teacher training we study influence productivity. First, content-focused teacher professional development is positively associated with productivity in middle and high school math. Second, more experienced teachers appear more effective in teaching elementary math and reading and middle school math. There is no evidence that either pre-service (undergraduate) training or the scholastic aptitude of teachers influences their ability to increase student achievement.

The evidence is that teachers learn literally nothing (or overall nothing - maybe they learn some good things and some harmful myths) in teacher college. They might learn a bit of math, which helps them teach math. IIRC it's also found that doing a PhD in education can be helpful in teaching classes with a heavy essay writing focus.

It's not surprising, since a lot of what gets taught in teacher college is junk psychology from the 1930s, and the essays of the kind of people who do a PhD in education. Here's a few of the biases that they tend to have (IMO):

* Education experts did OK at school, and think that the fundamentals are boring because their white upper-middle-class parents helped them learn phonics and the times tables.

* Education experts are often not actually good at much other than essay writing and year 10 math, and don't see the point of hard sciences like pyschology.

* There's plenty of smart people who go into education, but they do it because they want to teach, not be a researcher.

I could go through some of the poor content in education degrees (like the hero of education experts Vygotsky, who I'm not convinced many have even read other than through n-th hand sources where people write "the student is thus about to construct knowledge through scaffolded tasks in the zone of proximal development (Vygoskly, 1930something)", but you'd be lucky to find many teachers who agree on what any of that means (other than be common sense "don't make it too hard to follow").

Is it really a wonder that Cletus, who got a job in rural school in Alabama with no more qualifications than being able to write his name correctly teaches just as well (according to research) as someone with a PhD in education?

The good research is in psychology departments - people who study the science of learning are generally pretty well informed on it.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#62
I'm convinced that there are two kinds of learning - conscious and subconscious. Most people think of learning as a purely conscious effort but I would point out that becoming fluent in a new language is almost entirely a subconscious effort.

Conscious effortful study can help you pick up new vocabulary and grammar, but our brains have to process language at speeds too fast for the conscious mind to keep up. It has to be learned subconsciously. Most of us don't even notice the effort needed to read this paragraph of text because it's all subconsciously processed before out conscious minds get to it. While conscious learning requires short bursts of focused attention, subconscious learning is done almost 24/7 in the background in a relaxed state (no effort is needed, and I'm not even sure if it makes a difference).

[1] None of this is backed up, I essentially pulled it out my ass. It's my theory on why language classes don't work, but children pick up languages so effortlessly.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#64
A related theory (and book with the same name) is 'Learning as a generative activity', which states that learning occurs when one uses informations / half-backed k owledge to produce new content.

It becomes more relevant these days since we tend more and more to outsource content creation to the machines. This theory would predict that we would learn less doing so.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#65
post #51

There is a field of education, that studies teaching and learning! In fact many of you who attended university and studied at a "school of computer science" would have been in a building next to a "school of education". This post is interesting, but it reads like a layperson (from a teaching point of view) coming up with some fairly good theories of learning (of which there are quite a few) and discussing how applyin…

You mean Education Science? I'm currently studying it (besides my day job), probably writing my bachelor's thesis next semester. Unfortunately, in my experience there are several shortcomings of the field (or at least typical bachelor's master's programs outside teachers's preparation, which is separate in Germany). They love to talk about interdisciplinarity, and will even call out neuroscience and psychology often.…

I do my PhD in management as part of organization studies, I know some good folk doing education. So don't be too disappointed in the beginning, it might be just your profs, or your uni. Just search quickly with Google Scholar, and there is this Fischer et al. (2010) that looks like a good summary responding to your comment. If my impression from my colleagues is correct, UK seems to be a good place for grad school in education. Just from an epistemological standpoint there is Mahadevan (2020) and Romani et al. (2018) where you can see where the field is going.

Fischer, K. W., Goswami, U., Geake, J., & Task Force on the Future of Educational Neuroscience. (2010). The future of educational neuroscience. Mind, Brain, and Education, 4(2), 68-80.

Mahadevan, J. (2020). Ethnographic studies in international human resource management: Types and usefulness. German Journal of Human Resource Management, 34(2), 228-251.

Romani, L., Barmeyer, C., Primecz, H., & Pilhofer, K. (2018). Cross-cultural management studies: state of the field in the four research paradigms. International Studies of Management & Organization, 48(3), 247-263.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#66
post #51

There is a field of education, that studies teaching and learning! In fact many of you who attended university and studied at a "school of computer science" would have been in a building next to a "school of education". This post is interesting, but it reads like a layperson (from a teaching point of view) coming up with some fairly good theories of learning (of which there are quite a few) and discussing how applyin…

You mean Education Science? I'm currently studying it (besides my day job), probably writing my bachelor's thesis next semester. Unfortunately, in my experience there are several shortcomings of the field (or at least typical bachelor's master's programs outside teachers's preparation, which is separate in Germany). They love to talk about interdisciplinarity, and will even call out neuroscience and psychology often.…

I agree with most of everything you have said. That is common in many places, but exceptions are also regular enough to give good hope, and moreso in the post-graduate arena from what I have seen. Most of the people I know in this field work on or with theories that are more socio- than neuro-, but the balance is different at each institution.

Fortunately I see some very high quality and rigorous research techniques applied (with much less handwaving away of neuroscience) among my friends, but I don't need to look far for contrast. I don't work directly in this area, but am present for the pub discussions as it were.

However, I would say that statistical sophistication often seems to rely on the happenstance of cross-domain expertise. People only have so much time, knowledge, etc -- just the usual faults of humanity and organisations.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#67

There is a field of education, that studies teaching and learning! In fact many of you who attended university and studied at a "school of computer science" would have been in a building next to a "school of education". This post is interesting, but it reads like a layperson (from a teaching point of view) coming up with some fairly good theories of learning (of which there are quite a few) and discussing how applyin…

My Masters degree was in Instructional Psychology! I hardly ever see it referenced as a field of study.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#69
Wondering whether it subconsciously helps to have some sort of (automatic) expiration timer associated with things that end up in your "learning inbox".

I know from myself that I tend to bookmark and save many interesting talks/videos and articles for later, but often I never end up revisiting them; information hoarding in some sense.

Re: Learning needs to be effortful to be effective

#70
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Education Science? I'm currently studying it (besides my day job), probably writing my bachelor's thesis next semester. Unfortunately, in my experience there are several shortcomings of the field (or at least typical bachelor's master's programs outside teachers's preparation, which is separate in Germany). They love to talk about interdisciplinarity, and will even call out neuroscience and psychology often.…

I agree with most of everything you have said. That is common in many places, but exceptions are also regular enough to give good hope, and moreso in the post-graduate arena from what I have seen. Most of the people I know in this field work on or with theories that are more socio- than neuro-, but the balance is different at each institution. Fortunately I see some very high quality and rigorous research techniques…

> People only have so much time, knowledge, etc

And interest.

I've had several doctoral students and teaching assistants tell me (with variations) that they aren't good in "that math stuff" and that they don't think it really matters; they are doing "best practices" in SPSS and it's much more important to look at it in a holistic way.

In theory they would be right. If the best practices were sane.

But I also think it is going to get better, only very slowly. At some point there has to be cross-pollination with other fields.

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