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BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

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Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#61

Post by Karrot_Kream »

yieldcrv wrote: post #55
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.

I’m going to guess that people still want to go to mixers and events and happy hours in SF and those still happen at the same time If thats when peak hours are

Speaking for myself, I rarely go to downtown SF now and go out mostly in downtown Oakland these days. The businesses are just as, if not more, vibrant and I have more transit options (BART, bus, BRT, bike) than being forced to take BART across the Bay. Before the pandemic SF downtown had a much more vibrant scene but Oakland has caught up if not exceeded the SF scene. This is just myself though.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#62

Post by MikeTheRocker »

camel_gopher wrote: post #35

The core problem is assholes on the trains. People stopped riding because there’s either someone dangerous, someone crazy, or someone tweaked out. Literally on every Bart car, probably 2/3 of the time I ride. I end up using the Bart watch app to report this stuff every other time I ride. One guy tried to light a seat in fire. Another tailgated me through the gates and proceeded to push past me. Another was slumped ov…

I can corroborate this experience. Last time I rode BART, someone lit up a joint while we were in the airtight car under the waters of the San Francisco Bay. The time before that, I had a crazy guy screaming the whole ride.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#63

Post by ghaff »

jrockway wrote: post #31

I think BART is the perfect storm of commuter railroads that aren't going to recover. San Francisco is tech heavy, and tech still seems pretty work-from-home heavy. A problem I always wondered about is whether or not BART was the right system for San Francisco, as it seems a lot of the big companies are out in the suburbs and never had public transportation. I walked from the Mountain View train station to the Google…

>pretty much everyone decided "fuck it, I'll just drive".

Of course, there's also the option of "fuck it, I'll just stay home."

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#64

Post by bombcar »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #57
bombcar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farebox recovery is so damn low that I can only think the fares remain as an excuse to kick homeless and other undesirables off who aren’t technically breaking any rules or laws.

It's a pretty new topic in the US and studies are being conducted on this. AC Transit recently did one (I can link it if there's interest.) Indeed, farebox recovery is low enough that one of the main arguments for fare enforcement is to kick problem riders off. This is most impactful for operators who have to deal with the passengers in a way we riders do not.

I’ve always thought that issuing free passes to all appropriate taxpayers/residents would be a great way to go. Then you can raise the non pass price to soak those tourists!

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#65

Post by aidenn0 »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #58
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.

I’ve always thought that the jobs most “susceptible” to WFH are the traditional, 9-5 white collar jobs. Am interested to know if this is correct (outside of software industry, especially).

Just a theory, but white-collar jobs that now offer WFH as a perk probably offered flexible hours as a perk pre-COVID. This is conducive to commuting during off-peak hours.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#66

Post by cscurmudgeon »

jonathankoren wrote: post #51
jb12 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that with a constant amount of assaults, and fewer potential victims, you are more likely to be a victim.

Only if you assume random victims of assault. That’s a pretty big assumption

How is this not probabilistic victim blaming?

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#67

Post by Karrot_Kream »

bombcar wrote: post #64
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty new topic in the US and studies are being conducted on this. AC Transit recently did one (I can link it if there's interest.) Indeed, farebox recovery is low enough that one of the main arguments for fare enforcement is to kick problem riders off. This is most impactful for operators who have to deal with the passengers in a way we riders do not.

I’ve always thought that issuing free passes to all appropriate taxpayers/residents would be a great way to go. Then you can raise the non pass price to soak those tourists!

They're there! AC Transit runs a program called Clipper Start. The problem is, low income folks just don't take advantage of it, and it's (without further study) unclear why. This was identified during the session on fare enforcement and exactly as you say, there's interest in promoting it more heavily and trying to jack up the price on tourists or high-income leisure riders.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#68

Post by TheBigSalad »

peyton wrote: post #27
danhak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

Also if the decline is all WFH, why have private vehicle miles traveled recovered to pre-pandemic levels?

Well it can't be ONLY wfh. I think they meant "primarily". But more commuters choosing to drive is impacted by fewer people driving in due to WFH. The traffic was light, so they drove. Now traffic is normal again.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#69

Post by usrusr »

danhak wrote: post #20
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #2

As the article states, the reason why BART is so heavily impacted is because it was mostly designed as commuter rail. BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue. While peak-hour (morning and evening commute) ridership is catching up again (BART publishes numbers so you can check the work here), usage outside of peak hours is at an all-time low because of the increase of WFH jobs.…

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

I was wondering the same. Perhaps peak is all about people on fixed schedules like shop assistants amd the like, whereas those jobs that have switched to WFH Havre far mow flexible hours and many were using that flexibility was to avoid peak hours?

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#70

Post by TheBigSalad »

camel_gopher wrote: post #35

The core problem is assholes on the trains. People stopped riding because there’s either someone dangerous, someone crazy, or someone tweaked out. Literally on every Bart car, probably 2/3 of the time I ride. I end up using the Bart watch app to report this stuff every other time I ride. One guy tried to light a seat in fire. Another tailgated me through the gates and proceeded to push past me. Another was slumped ov…

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