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Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

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Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#61

Post by xkcd-sucks »

ttfkam wrote: post #53
RandomBK wrote: post #12

They don't even bother trying to make this sound believable. You claim it's 1.5x-2x faster? Sure I might believe that despite your prohibition against benchmarks. 10x faster? You better show how your engineers pulled out that miracle. 1000x? You've either picked out a very weird edge case, used something in a way it's not meant to be used, or just made that up. Anyone who's done any serious benchmarking in a competit…

And of course Oracle famously forbids publishing benchmarks on their databases, so independent verification is indeed impossible.

Just wondering, is there a site hosted in a US unfriendly jurisdiction / on Tor which does publish Oracle benchmarks?

Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#62

Post by wredue »

RandomBK wrote: post #22
wredue wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python vs C/C++/Rust/Zig has even more startling performance differences. If you’re looking for benchmarks of the same classes of software, among techempower benchmarks, the fastest on the charts are often well over 1000x faster. Being 1000x slower than shit needs to be is, very literally, the default state of the vast majority of software today. I don’t even blink at 1000x claims cause that’s just the standard gains…

Perhaps, but Python vs C is hardly an apples-for-apples comparison. I could get 1000x differences benchmarking Aurora vs Redis for example. That's what I meant by "used in a way not meant to be used". Broadly speaking, there's plenty of public benchmarks indicating that a properly-configured Aurora is within the same order magnitude as a properly-configured RDS Postgres which is in the same ballpark as MySQL. That's…

And that’s why I also discussed the several web api benchmarks where you’ll see 10,000x differences from bottom ranking to top.

But you didn’t like that, so felt compelled to ignore it.

1,000x is literally nothing when discussing modern development practices.

I’m not saying that oracle is definitely 1000x faster, just that writing off claims of 1000x cause you dislike the number is not proper in software when you can immediately find 10,000x benchmarks of two directly competing software packages.

Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#63

Post by wredue »

RandomBK wrote: post #22
wredue wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python vs C/C++/Rust/Zig has even more startling performance differences. If you’re looking for benchmarks of the same classes of software, among techempower benchmarks, the fastest on the charts are often well over 1000x faster. Being 1000x slower than shit needs to be is, very literally, the default state of the vast majority of software today. I don’t even blink at 1000x claims cause that’s just the standard gains…

Perhaps, but Python vs C is hardly an apples-for-apples comparison. I could get 1000x differences benchmarking Aurora vs Redis for example. That's what I meant by "used in a way not meant to be used". Broadly speaking, there's plenty of public benchmarks indicating that a properly-configured Aurora is within the same order magnitude as a properly-configured RDS Postgres which is in the same ballpark as MySQL. That's…

The claim that “1000x is extraordinary” is demonstrably wrong.

You can browse virtually any modern website today and see time to full load of 15+ seconds, followed by time to link load of 7+ seconds.

Back in the days of single core pentiums, 1 second loads were considered severely broken.

Modern software on modern hardware takes tens of seconds to start, whereas software with more features in the pentium days loaded instantly.

1000x is not only not “extraordinary”, it’s actually the demonstrable norm today. You think it’s extraordinary as a result of simply not knowing what computers are capable of.

Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#64

Post by RandomBK »

wredue wrote: post #63
RandomBK wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but Python vs C is hardly an apples-for-apples comparison. I could get 1000x differences benchmarking Aurora vs Redis for example. That's what I meant by "used in a way not meant to be used". Broadly speaking, there's plenty of public benchmarks indicating that a properly-configured Aurora is within the same order magnitude as a properly-configured RDS Postgres which is in the same ballpark as MySQL. That's…

The claim that “1000x is extraordinary” is demonstrably wrong. You can browse virtually any modern website today and see time to full load of 15+ seconds, followed by time to link load of 7+ seconds. Back in the days of single core pentiums, 1 second loads were considered severely broken. Modern software on modern hardware takes tens of seconds to start, whereas software with more features in the pentium days loaded…

15s vs 1s is only a factor of 15x, not 1000x.

The load time of the oft-considered-bloated reddit.com for me is ~5s. Let's use that as a benchmark. If you told me you got reddit.com to load 1000x faster (5ms), then yes that is extraordinary.

You're also missing the point of my 'apples-to-apples' caveat. A modern webpage might load slowly, but it also does a lot more than a static html one-pager. Sure you might not consider that to be useful, but those features (tracking, A/B testing, ads, redundancy, CDN, etc.) are useful to someone.

Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#65

Post by RandomBK »

wredue wrote: post #62
RandomBK wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but Python vs C is hardly an apples-for-apples comparison. I could get 1000x differences benchmarking Aurora vs Redis for example. That's what I meant by "used in a way not meant to be used". Broadly speaking, there's plenty of public benchmarks indicating that a properly-configured Aurora is within the same order magnitude as a properly-configured RDS Postgres which is in the same ballpark as MySQL. That's…

And that’s why I also discussed the several web api benchmarks where you’ll see 10,000x differences from bottom ranking to top. But you didn’t like that, so felt compelled to ignore it. 1,000x is literally nothing when discussing modern development practices. I’m not saying that oracle is definitely 1000x faster, just that writing off claims of 1000x cause you dislike the number is not proper in software when you can…

Show me a serious (i.e. used in production) web framework that is 10,000x faster or slower than React or Vue or Spring when measured on a real-life workload (i.e. not testing a single function in a hot loop).

All I'm saying is that if you're approaching a benchmark between serious competitors providing similar functionality used in the intended way, you almost never see 1000x+ performance differences.

Re: Larry Ellison: Oracle Database 1,000x Faster Than AWS Aurora

#66

Post by wredue »

RandomBK wrote: post #65
wredue wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s why I also discussed the several web api benchmarks where you’ll see 10,000x differences from bottom ranking to top. But you didn’t like that, so felt compelled to ignore it. 1,000x is literally nothing when discussing modern development practices. I’m not saying that oracle is definitely 1000x faster, just that writing off claims of 1000x cause you dislike the number is not proper in software when you can…

Show me a serious (i.e. used in production) web framework that is 10,000x faster or slower than React or Vue or Spring when measured on a real-life workload (i.e. not testing a single function in a hot loop). All I'm saying is that if you're approaching a benchmark between serious competitors providing similar functionality used in the intended way, you almost never see 1000x+ performance differences.

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