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Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

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Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#61

Post by jacknews »

hrunt wrote: post #31

Those who are familiar with US submarine operations would assume this from the start. For an excellent account of the development of US submarine capabilities (including listening and detection), I wholeheartedly recommend the book "Blind Man's Bluff".[0] How that book hasn't been made into a mini-series is beyond me. The stories and characters are incredible. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Esp…

Right, I don't think it took a top-secret listening system either - those subs can hear snow falling in NY from half way across the atlantic.

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#62

Post by BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 »

noah_buddy wrote: post #25
cjensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't "know" with 100% certainty from a sound, and generally searchers don't give up until they must.

This reminds me of a thorough and depressing write up of the lost hikers in a south western desert. An experienced search and rescue guy spent years finding where they perished, navigating bureaucracy and the arid landscape even though the victims were certainly deceased.

There's a guy whose truck was found in the bushes off a gravel road in the mountains. Subsequent searching turned up camping equipment and a laptop. He had terminal cancer. Some years later I spotted a thigh bone that turned out to be from a moose.

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#63

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dekhn wrote: post #27
kneebonian wrote: post #8

For those who doubted this... one of the main components of a strategic nuclear arm is submarines, even more than ICBMs to an extant, a nuclear strike might be able to wipe out all your launch facilities, but it isn't going to take out your subs, which are going to be around for a 2nd strike. Because of that being able to detect anything in the ocean anywhere within a reasonable distance of your coastal regions is a…

One might say that subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms.

> subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms

I used to think this. But land-based missiles are essential for MAD, as a nuclear sponge and by being cheap. They also protect against a technological horizon over which subs are unmasked. (There is a great scene in The Expanse which contemplates such a horizon.)

What I can’t get my head around are nuclear bombers, which largely seem to be for posturing [1].

[1] https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/SSQ/documents/Vo...

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#64

Post by phpisthebest »

yborg wrote: post #6

I'm pretty sure the Navy also knows what was causing the "banging" heard underwater during the search. I don't understand the point of leaking this information now, it just makes it look like the Coast Guard spent 3 days and considerable money pretending to look for a target it knew was probably destroyed.

It is almost like they needed the news to be distracted for some reason....

hmmm

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#65

Post by shrimp_emoji »

kneebonian wrote: post #13
m_0x wrote: post #5

Does this mean the passengers had an instantaneous death?

Theres an avid discussion on the other thread about this, but the short answer is likely yes. They were probably crushed, incinerated and then bludgeoned to death in less than 3ms, and probably unconscious before they were aware of any of the rest of it.

Damn, why don't we execute people that way (if we're still executing people, that is)?

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#66

Post by nukeman »

hrunt wrote: post #31

Those who are familiar with US submarine operations would assume this from the start. For an excellent account of the development of US submarine capabilities (including listening and detection), I wholeheartedly recommend the book "Blind Man's Bluff".[0] How that book hasn't been made into a mini-series is beyond me. The stories and characters are incredible. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Esp…

I work at a Department of Energy facility as a contractor. Our DOE facility rep was a Navy Nuke, and gave me a copy of this book. I agree that it is fantastic. And it’s written in a gripping narrative style, so it reads more like a novel and less like conventional non-fiction.

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#67

Post by jonah »

noah_buddy wrote: post #25
cjensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't "know" with 100% certainty from a sound, and generally searchers don't give up until they must.

This reminds me of a thorough and depressing write up of the lost hikers in a south western desert. An experienced search and rescue guy spent years finding where they perished, navigating bureaucracy and the arid landscape even though the victims were certainly deceased.

Aahh, you're probably talking about Tom Mahood's: The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans. They were in Death Valley NP.

An epic and gripping tale for sure. It made quite an impression on me as I was joining my local SAR team.

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#68

Post by dragonwriter »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63
dekhn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might say that subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms.

> subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms I used to think this. But land-based missiles are essential for MAD, as a nuclear sponge and by being cheap. They also protect against a technological horizon over which subs are unmasked. (There is a great scene in The Expanse which contemplates such a horizon.) What I can’t get my head around are nuclear bombers, which largely seem to be for posturing [1…

> What I can’t get my head around are nuclear bombers, which largely seem to be for posturing

Posturing is super important, strategically, though. Also, nuclear-capable bombers double as conventional bombers, so there’s that.

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#69

Post by le-mark »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63
dekhn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might say that subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms.

> subs are the only truly strategic component of nuclear arms I used to think this. But land-based missiles are essential for MAD, as a nuclear sponge and by being cheap. They also protect against a technological horizon over which subs are unmasked. (There is a great scene in The Expanse which contemplates such a horizon.) What I can’t get my head around are nuclear bombers, which largely seem to be for posturing [1…

> They also protect against a technological horizon over which subs are unmasked.

I’ve read speculation that Russia boomers are followed at all times by at least one fast attack, and they can listen for sounds like missile bay doors opening. I have no sources, but given the state of Russia navy it seems plausible.

Re: Top secret U.S. Navy system heard titan implosion days ago

#70

Post by chrononaut »

This article is written in a strange way.

> The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official.

"Began listening" -- So OceanGate actually contacted the Coast Guard immediately?

> Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

The commander on site? Like the Coast Guard commander on site? That would imply the implosion happened many hours after the loss of communication.

> “The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”

This makes it more like they retroactively looked at the data and noted that the implosion happened and then informed the commander.

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