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San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

latimes.com

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Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#61

Post by ryan93 »

c00lio wrote: post #53
rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

If this were a human driver, at least half of those would loose you your driver's license. Why are there no such consequences for the companies?

You won’t even lose your license for killing people or multiple DUIs

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#62

Post by AnimalMuppet »

c00lio wrote: post #53
rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

If this were a human driver, at least half of those would loose you your driver's license. Why are there no such consequences for the companies?

Just lose your license? If I did one of those, I might get sued. If I did more than one, I might wind up in jail. (What charge? Reckless endangerment, if nothing greater.)

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#63

Post by jeffbee »

c00lio wrote: post #53
rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

If this were a human driver, at least half of those would loose you your driver's license. Why are there no such consequences for the companies?

Are you joking? Name any jurisdiction in America where you can lose your license for parking in front of a firehouse. There are no points for that in California.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#64

Post by dehrmann »

Sharlin wrote: post #33
dopylitty wrote: post #24

It’s absolutely insane that automated driving is allowed on public streets. It should be completely banned until such time as there exists a comprehensive testing regime for validating that the automated system functions in all the scenarios it might be expected to face including emergency vehicles, construction, pedestrians, bad weather, and damaged sensors.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

And it'd be nice to get the same list of complaints about incidents with human drivers for comparison.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#65

Post by c00lio »

dylan604 wrote: post #13
pixel3234 wrote: post #7

Most countries have penalty points on driving license. If some driver is violating traffic rules too often, they should lose driving license! Self driving cars should not have an exception!

are you suggesting this on a per car basis, or all cars working off of the same point system? accruing enough points to unlock "suspended license" achievement would seem appropriate to be applied to the entire fleet since it's the same "AI".

It should be per software. Maybe per software version, if the company can conclusively prove that the prior problems that led to points cannot happen again.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#66

Post by anigbrowl »

phpisthebest wrote: post #40
dopylitty wrote: post #24

It’s absolutely insane that automated driving is allowed on public streets. It should be completely banned until such time as there exists a comprehensive testing regime for validating that the automated system functions in all the scenarios it might be expected to face including emergency vehicles, construction, pedestrians, bad weather, and damaged sensors.

it is clear to me that most if not all of Human Progress will cease to advance as we have gone to the extreme with safety culture. if we were still using Horse drawn carriages for travel, and someone invented the first Horseless Buggies today it would be banned and never allowed to advance at all. The amount of death and injury from the inception of the automobile would never be allowed in a new industry today. We ha…

Oh BS. I'm sure you're aware that when trains were first introduced some jurisdictions required that the train be preceded by someone waving a red flag. 'Safety culture' is not always correct by any means, but any tort law book will supply you with abundant nightmare fuel about what happens when safety isn't prioritized.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#67

Post by nycdatasci »

The incidents in the article are inexcusable. But to be fair, I manually reviewed a dozen accident reports on the CA state website and 100% were due to human error in other vehicles or due to issues with an operator of an AI vehicle in manual mode: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/auto...

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#68

Post by c00lio »

jeffbee wrote: post #63
c00lio wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were a human driver, at least half of those would loose you your driver's license. Why are there no such consequences for the companies?

Are you joking? Name any jurisdiction in America where you can lose your license for parking in front of a firehouse. There are no points for that in California.

OK, then the US is a very strange place. I'm European, so forgive my ignorance in those matters, I thought things worked similarly over there.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#69

Post by arkitaip »

phpisthebest wrote: post #40
dopylitty wrote: post #24

It’s absolutely insane that automated driving is allowed on public streets. It should be completely banned until such time as there exists a comprehensive testing regime for validating that the automated system functions in all the scenarios it might be expected to face including emergency vehicles, construction, pedestrians, bad weather, and damaged sensors.

it is clear to me that most if not all of Human Progress will cease to advance as we have gone to the extreme with safety culture. if we were still using Horse drawn carriages for travel, and someone invented the first Horseless Buggies today it would be banned and never allowed to advance at all. The amount of death and injury from the inception of the automobile would never be allowed in a new industry today. We ha…

This is hilariously ignorant because thats actually what happened with cars when they were first introduced. Amazing tech that caused so much societal issues that all kinds of laws and regulations came into effect.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#70

Post by choppaface »

rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

Uber has been and continues to be just as egregious in SF. I’ve been hit by two Ubers, both when I was in the crosswalk, and one incident caused me a $500 loss. There are Uber Eats double-parkers who stand in queues all night long making key roads unsafe or impassible. I’ve been in an Uber where the driver was literally trying to brake-check and cause rear-enders and he wouldn’t let me get out until I opened the door while the car was in motion. I’ve messaged Uber support dozens of times and they of course do nothing.

Uber is clearly a different problem, but a much bigger one in the macro.

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